We Are For Good Podcast - The Podcast for Nonprofits

623. The Art & Science of Convening: Designing Events That Spark Change - Heather Mason

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Meet Heather, Founder and CEO of Caspian Agency and Impact Lounge. 🤝

She’s the creative mind behind some of the world’s most powerful gatherings. Since launching Caspian in 2005, she has brought a scientifically grounded, strategic approach to high-impact events for organizations like the Skoll World Forum, Rockefeller Foundation, and Dalio Foundation. With roots in film, marketing, and large-scale conference production, she also created the Caspian 10 Essentials, an event methodology now taught in university programs and used by leading global institutions.

In this episode, Heather shares how intentional design, storytelling, and purpose can transform any gathering into a catalyst for change. Whether you're planning a summit, workshop, or community meetup, she reminds us it’s not about doing more—it’s about doing it with heart. 💛

This conversation will shift how you think about convening. 🎧 Tune in and walk away ready to gather with more purpose, clarity, and impact.

💡Learn: 

  • The Caspian 10 Essentials framework in creating impactful gatherings
  • Understanding the ‘why’ behind events is crucial for success
  • Events should be designed to foster meaningful connections
  • Events can serve as a catalyst for social movements
  • Small, intentional touches can make a big impact
  • Collaboration among all stakeholders is essential
  • Mindset shifts can empower individuals to challenge the status quo

Episode Highlights

  • Designing Events fro Impact (11:59)
  • Creating Meaningful Connections (24:01)
  • Creating Intentional Gatherings on a Budget (29:55)
  • The Role of Events in Social Movements (36:12)
  • Mindset Shifts: If It's Not Gravity, It Can Be Changed (37:58)
  • Heather’s One Good Thing: If it’s not gravity, it can be changed. (37:00)

Episode Shownotes: www.weareforgood.com/episode/623


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Speaker 1:

Hey, I'm John.

Speaker 2:

And I'm Becky.

Speaker 1:

And this is the we Are For Good podcast.

Speaker 2:

Nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world.

Speaker 1:

We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an impact uprising.

Speaker 2:

So welcome to the good community. We're nonprofit professionals, philanthropists, world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.

Speaker 1:

So let's get started. Becky, would you say that we're obsessed?

Speaker 3:

Is that fair?

Speaker 2:

I just think like we've found our best friend. I just really think we have. I just think like we've found our best friend.

Speaker 3:

I just really think we have I mean, my stomach hurts from laughing already the joy and the human that has walked into our midst today. It is an honor to introduce everybody to Heather Mason. You might know her as the CEO and founder of the Caspian Agency. She's also founder of the Impact Lounge. We're going to talk about that. But we're going to have this really elevated conversation today about both the art and science of convening with purpose.

Speaker 3:

And our friend Heather here is not just casual to events. I mean, she is kind of the trailblazer behind some of the most incredible global gatherings. Looking at you Skull World Forum and the Dalio Foundation, rockefeller Foundation, just these events that seem larger than life. But they're centered on meaning and intention and it's done in a really thoughtful way. So Heather's not just building conference stages, she's building actual communities, which we love. So she does this especially through the, through the impact lounge, which is a unique pop-up space where visionaries, storytellers and artists converge to harness the power of narrative and film to drive positive societal change. That's at Sundance, at Canneses, at the UN Climate Week and more. So I'm really excited for this episode as we think about how do we actually do this. This doesn't happen by accident, but it's through deep intention. And so, heather, to get to spend time in your midst, to get to laugh with you, my friend, it means the world. So thanks, so much for joining the podcast.

Speaker 4:

Oh, thank you for having me in the podcast. Oh, thank you for having me. I'm really excited to talk about this.

Speaker 2:

I mean, if you're going to ask me about Caspian and Impact Lounge. That's like asking about my children or my cat, so yeah, yeah, Miles will.

Speaker 4:

will make himself a special guest, whether you'd like him or not.

Speaker 3:

There's a reason to get on YouTube y'all and check this out. So I mean, heather, we want to hear about all the beautiful things that you've brought into the world, but first we just want to get to know you and a little bit of your story. Would you take us into some formative experiences growing up and what led you into this work?

Speaker 4:

Sure, yeah. So I grew up in Idaho Falls, idaho which normally when I say that in a room no one's like yay, because there's very few people that grew up in Idaho Falls, idaho, a pretty small town, and I always wanted to go into the movie industry but I thought that's probably impossible. So when I went to college I went to Utah State on a leadership scholarship. That's the only reason I went there. And when I was there I remember thinking, well, I might as well be a lawyer. You know that's what everybody is right. And then someone spoke at my campus and she was from the Utah Film Commission. She hadn't even heard of a film commission and they ran the press office at the Sundance Film Festival, which I'd also never heard of. So I volunteered, I got an internship at the film commission and then I became.

Speaker 4:

When she said the Sundance Film Festival was coming around, I took two weeks off of school and I worked at that and that was in 1994. And that is when we were renting out phones, these big block things, to folks like Roger Ebert and Peter Travers, handing them their big suitcase batteries, and I just got obsessed. I thought maybe there's a way I could work in the movie industry and I wanted to be a movie producer. So being a conference producer is the second, the B plan, because I wanted to say things like you know, 5,000 Buffalo. You know stage left and I wanted to have trains. You know, and so far none of our foundation clients want trains or Buffalo or pyrotechnics, so we're still seeking that client.

Speaker 2:

You're doing it metaphorically, though. That is so beautiful in the impact space, metaphorically, very much so. Yes.

Speaker 4:

Very, very much so, and we're bringing in Buffalo on screen, you know, at things like the Impact Lounge. But that was kind of what set me on my path was way back then in 1993.

Speaker 2:

Wow, Isn't it just wild how one moment can just change the trajectory of your life?

Speaker 2:

Because I have to tell you just like my heart is so full hearing about little Heather growing up with these dreams and feeling like they're impossible, and then having this chance encounter, and here you are literally putting on like the Skull World Forum and Sundance I mean working with the UN and Rockefeller and it's like what a dream that we get to have your kind of gifts in this impact space. And we want to talk about this art and science of convening, because in the, I would say, hashtag basic forum, we would call them events, but they are. But what we always say on this podcast is like the event is not just an event, the gift is not just an event. Everything is a conduit to an experience that leads deeper and leads to greater connectivity, and I feel like you have really figured out how to do this, Heather, in a masterful way. So when you look at like these convenings you've created, how do you approach designing these events and experiences that have this huge aim of sparking real world change? How do you do that?

Speaker 4:

Yeah Well, I'm really glad you asked that question, because I spent the last 20 years trying to figure out that science and I do feel like we did it, which is great. So I created something called the Caspian 10 Essentials, and where that came from is I always like to say, every lesson is born of pain. Every one of those lessons, every one of those essentials, was born from figuring them out later in the process than I needed to. And the one thing I was very good at in college, very good at high school, was logic. This was way back when they had that gifted talented program. I was so good at logic they actually sent someone out from a nationalized testing location to see if I was a boy, because they didn't believe that I was a girl, which I think is funny.

Speaker 1:

There's lots of problems with this. There's lots of layers of problems.

Speaker 4:

That just shows you how good I was at logic tests. So they kept throwing them at me. So when I looked at events from a logical perspective, it didn't make sense to me that every single one of them that I was witnessing, because after the film world worked at Fox Studios, then I ended up being in conference production because I wasn't making any money in film and I worked for Charles Schwab and I got to see corporate events done at scale and I thought everyone's kind of figuring them out as you go and I thought that's not good for a mature business protocol. A mature business protocol has very, very rigorous procedures in order to have repeatable, scalable results. And events seemed like everyone would say things like put on an event, as though everyone was going to wake up that morning like they were born yesterday and try to figure it out, and I thought that doesn't make any sense to my logical brain.

Speaker 4:

There must be a way to codify this, at least create some sort of containers. You can still iterate in them just like a sandbox, be super creative in the sandbox, but can you create sandbox-type containers? And yes, you can, and I truly believe that, because if you go through the Caspian 10 Essentials, starting with success metrics, then going to content mapping, then audience mix analysis. Those are the first big three. You can start to layer out a very strategic plan and then you follow with the other seven. And the biggest thing about the Caspian 10 essentials is they're made not just to plan for one event, it's to plan for what your event looks like in three years. That's the key.

Speaker 3:

Oh, okay, heather, this could turn into a 10 part series right now. So I want to move with like intention, because you've already said things that, just to me, are missed already, and I think it disconnects us from the why. Whenever we miss the beginning and I want to you're taking me back. There was a moment I was in charge, or my team was in charge, of putting on our annual gala, which we call in Oklahoma, the gala for everyone else.

Speaker 1:

Right, so this thing iterated over time.

Speaker 3:

But I remember my events person came to me one time and was like I feel like this event is void of the why, like, why do? Why are we doing this outside of just putting on a party? And we should start there. But it's so funny how often we don't. And I think that you getting really clear on the success metrics right up front, of course, is where we should start. But what? What would you kind of reverse engineer? What are some good questions to ask to bring somebody into landing on that?

Speaker 4:

Why, before you even get started, Exactly, and this is where we really use that three-year visioning. Where do you, why are you doing it now? Because where do you want it to be in three years? Because normally there's a purpose for what you think this is going to propel the momentum this event is going to create. So what is that momentum and what happens if it works? Because I also think a lot of folks sometimes, because of what you're saying you're busy, you're in your world, this is where it helps to hire an outside person is that they can bring you out of that and say, well, if it worked, then what happens? What happens in a year if what you did works?

Speaker 4:

And if all it is is well, we made money. Well, for what purpose? Like, let's say, you're Gala, Gala, whatever. What happens if you raise all the money? Well, well then, we'd help a lot of kids. What happens then? Well then, the kids would go to school. Well, what happens then? Well then, we build a better, more prosperous world. Well, what happens next year? Well, we could talk about those kids. Well, what happens in three years? Well then, we've helped a million kids.

Speaker 4:

Well, let's start with your gala this year saying we're going to help a million kids. That's going to change your message on your first one out is that is really your momentum, that is going to be your. Why it's not going to be we're going to raise a half million dollars to help this many kids this year. It's if we keep doing this, and if we keep doing this at scale, we're going to be helping a million kids in three years. That's a vision that's a lot more exciting, let's say, even for a gala, and we don't do many galas. But that's where I would start.

Speaker 4:

And then the other thing I would do is look at your audience, mix analysis and say why are those people coming and why are they going to come this year. But, more importantly, why are those people coming and why are they going to come this year? But, more importantly, why are they going to keep coming back? And if you don't know why they're going to keep coming back, then that starts to throw a question on well, why would they come this year? Because now we're begging them and we don't want to beg people. We want to build something that is so exciting and that's what I say to my team too that if you aren't able to go, you are calling the people who went the next day going. How was it? That's the type of event you want to build and it's possible.

Speaker 2:

I am just, you are shifting my thinking about events so deeply because I do think when you have a posture of let's put on an event, it's so singular, it's so right now, and what you're saying right now which I this is this is copywritten. Now I'm going to say this this is the Heather Mason three-year-old approach, like your three-year-old, that just keeps going why, why, why, like you, literally just need to keep asking so, what, so, why, so, why? Until you get to that very end and for me, heather, it's shifting thinking about we're in this moment, help us in this moment. But it's like, john, we talk about this with Impact Arc, like talk about last year's impact before you talk about what you're doing right now. And then, as people come into the story and the experience, you're talking about what happened last time we had an event.

Speaker 2:

We're talking about what's happening in the future and the loop keeps going and people keep building into something bigger and bigger. And you want to come to see what we did before. You want to be a part of what we're pushing to in the future and that is an experience, that is not just an event. So I think what you're saying is so brilliant and I want to tie it to the movement and how we can shift thinking, because if you believe that events can be a conduit to something much bigger, to help us understand what role you think that events can play in scaling social movements or maybe even shifting really ingrained systems, what have you seen? Oh, absolutely.

Speaker 4:

That's my entire belief system is that when you get people together in the right mix and that's critical with the right type of strategic content and the content has to serve both their needs and the needs of your organization and you put them together intentionally with also I will say this is a part of our content mapping process facilitated networking. The one thing we don't believe in is purely 100% serendipitous meetings. If I'm going to take minutes from your life, I need to be very cautious with those minutes and I need to put every bit of thinking into how I'm going to spend your minutes. Now, some of those minutes can be serendipitous networking, but I also know I don't like to recreate the. You know the cafeteria line from junior high. Hey, you're picking the broccoli, so am I. Are we friends now? Why do we allow ourselves?

Speaker 4:

to recreate that. I think that's mean I actually do. I like, because I'm supposed to go into this place and I'm kind of left in the wilds and I'm really outgoing, as you see. But even I don't like that as an outgoing person being like, okay and here I go, Right, Good luck, let's toss you in there. So I do think event organizers, if we're to create movements at scale like what you're saying, we have an obligation to invite the right people, the right mix, and then actually make that work in that crucible, you know, make those chemistry experiments happen and create those catalytic moments. Now people can opt in or opt out. Sometimes people think are you going to make us all get together in musical chairs? No, you can go and eat in your lounge alone.

Speaker 2:

With your blue M&Ms on your rider. Yes, right.

Speaker 4:

Yes, exactly, but you can create ways that you can put people together or allow them to discover each other if they'd like to Like. Are you working in you know water rights in wherever, and am I working in water rights over here and then also creating counterintuitive collaborations? I'm working in getting lead out of pipes, but you're working in city government and helping that become more streamlined. What if we were in a group together and that intentionality, that time is so precious to think about those types of things, and the problem is, what I see is a lot of non-profits. You know a lot of organizations. We're not going to spend money on the production. We're going to make all our lower level staff, like, drive themselves crazy and cry right after, because that's when we see them, and then they're going to quit and get burnt out because we have to save the money you know, for, whatever the cause is, at the same, spend the money on the logistics, because the time and energy that an organization should spend is on thinking who gets there and how to connect them, and the reason that isn't done is because they're burning out their lower level staff on doing a job that they've never been trained for, and events are a profession. It's not a hobby. It's not a bigger dinner party. It is an actual profession, just like unplugging your toilet's not a hobby. It's not a bigger dinner party, it is an actual profession, just like unplugging your toilet is not doing plumbing.

Speaker 4:

So you need to hire professionals and you need to spend that money or have your internal events team so that you can spend time, because that is the way. When you're talking about creating movements, it happens by doing that and that takes a lot of thought and calm and not running around. It has to be sacrosanct to do that and then it works and we've seen it work in examples. You can name them. It's why people go to Davos, it's why people go to UNGA week. They live this example. Yeah, they know they are important and all of those they curate the audience list and they curate those intentional meetings.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, so we need to do the same, I mean holy heck. I feel, like.

Speaker 3:

I'm having a lot of epiphanies here, but what you're saying just is so resonant that if this is really an aligned strategy, why would we not invest? And when someone's giving us their greatest asset their time they're literally giving their time why would we not invest to make sure that that experience really does move the needle in the direction that we're trying to go, really does move the needle in the direction that we're trying to go? So can we double click on this? I mean, we've talked a little bit about the why. I'm curious about really designing events against like a strategy, like truly to create a strategic gathering. What do you think is the mix of that, if you haven't touched on it yet?

Speaker 4:

Yeah, absolutely so. So the content mapping process to me is the strategy part. So you look at and that comes from your success metrics your success metrics will actually outline which is interesting most of your programmatic elements. Because if we say, what do you want to accomplish? Well, we want them to learn.

Speaker 4:

Okay, now we're listening, because whatever they're going to learn is going to be some sort of content that has to be created for that moment. And we want them to meet people of okay, that's another piece of content, we would call that a networking moment potentially. And we want them to interact, we want them to pledge. All these are little content pieces that get pulled out of that. But we also say, okay, what does your audience want to? Because if you don't give that side some a lens of opportunity, then no one's going to want to come to for your goals.

Speaker 4:

But you have to find that blend that is, your strategic mix of your content is the blend of their lens and and their opportunities they want, and your lens and your goals that you have, and those are all going to come out in content pieces. Well, they're going to want to meet funders. You know a lot of. That's an often uh, it's a very frequent um conversation point and I love it when some of my clients are like but you know we have to nail them down and make sure they don't say something awkward. But and I'm like, you're already lost If you really think good luck to you.

Speaker 4:

Well, also, if you really think those are the people you're inviting, that they're going to have no social skills, that's another conversation. That is not for this conversation. Let's assume your human beings have social skills, now we can move on. You know, we can get rid of the fear that they might actually have a conversation, ask for money, because you're an organization that has money and is supposed to give it to them.

Speaker 2:

Okay, and let go of your fear of controlling the situation in every single minute.

Speaker 4:

Yes, yes, yes. And that is a big one, becky. I'm so glad you said that, because so many minutes are planned. And again, that's why we like to look at the entire timeframe of minutes and we think about this minutes, hours from the time they arrive to the time they leave. And now I go back to my logic. Now we're in a mathematical equation and content can be a mathematical equation, because if I know when you start and when you end and I know when you sleep, probably, then I know how many hours I have of your time and attention. And so we actually take our content down to percentage levels. Because this is where I say events are a science. That's why that's our tagline event science.

Speaker 4:

All of this can be done through logic and intention. If you said to me in the success metrics, if I said, what percentage of content do you want versus percentage of networking, be it networking facilitated or not, and let's say, becky, you said to me I want 50-50. Great, because the best part is, I'm going to hold you to that, because I now know, let's say, you have 50 hours of time with these humans. Well, I know 25 hours get to be open networking and we see a lot of clients try to claw that back with content. And we'll go back to the success metrics and say you said at the beginning 50, 50, we don't have to hold that. But then I'm going to adjust your success metrics to what we can meet, because now it's 90-10. Now it's 90% content, 10% networking, based on the number of hours. It's a mathematical equation. And then the nice part about using math with your content is, let's say we did a survey that said I didn't have enough time for networking, said you know, I didn't have enough time for networking. Well, now you have a lever to adjust. It's not vague, it's not in the clouds, it's. We offered 10 hours of networking versus 30 hours of content. So let's next year up into 15 hours of networking and 20 hours of content.

Speaker 4:

Now we're moving a needle in a very intentional way so that hopefully we get that right balance in a very intentional way, so that hopefully we get that right balance. And that is the scientific part of it. It's not, I feel, like this, or let's have a this or let's get a keynote, because somebody knows somebody who is kind of famous. It's well, in your success metrics you said you only wanted this many keynotes and you wanted this many workshops. We're at keynote level Now, obviously, if there's a leverage speaker we talk about speaker leverage who's going to move the needle for your organization well, let's adjust that. That makes sense. But if it's just keynote for keynote sake especially in you know they're famous, we know them that usually tips your content over to that side of too much of your needs and not enough of your audience needs. And when you start to see that move to one way or the other, that lever, if you go too far to your side, you're going to lose your audience and your surveys are going to show it.

Speaker 2:

Okay, can I tell you why I love this so much? Because you've not only reframed the event entirely, you've entirely reframed it, but it is built and the scaffolding is absolutely equitable. Can I tell you that when I ran events, when John ran events, there was no equity, there was no co-build in this.

Speaker 2:

It was someone up top said they want this and the little people down below made it happen and we showed up early and I'm telling you by the end of the night, when everybody's gone, we are schlepping chairs, my, my um spanks are rolling down. I am in flip flops Like we are beyond tired. But what you've just proposed is an equitable co-build here and with everyone accountable to the plan, to the metrics, to the outcome of what we want to do, and that is an absolute reframe and I think the equity in it is incredible. Now you have teased these Caspian 10 essentials and we are not getting through this podcast without you breaking them down just a little bit, because we want you to share a couple that you think nonprofit professionals could really employ to these sort of smaller scale events, their convenings to really be able to build to that greater outcome shared outcome, I would say that you're already talking about. So which ones would you pick up and please break them down for us?

Speaker 4:

Yeah, gosh, I mean, you know I love talking about this. So I mean, the first three for sure are your pillars, that's, the strategic pillars are the ones I've been speaking about success metrics, audience mix, content mapping. But then you move beyond that and speaker leverage and logistics are one of our next ones. And the reason it's there and and why we put it number four is because usually, when we engage a client, someone will say oh my gosh, we already know our speakers. I'm like that's interesting, I'm not listening to you. I'm like that's interesting, I'm not listening to you, let's go back, wow, let's go back.

Speaker 1:

That's good.

Speaker 4:

And we're going to do our three and then, if those speakers work, when we get to step four with everything you've built now, I will listen to you. My ears are open, but we do not start there. And so I do find a lot of staff members really like that because they've been tasked with, they've watched this from the sidelines, like you said, the people at the bottom rungs and gone. Why are they inviting blah blah? So speaker leverage and logistics are very important because it serves both sides, because when we get to speakers, if a client will say, especially an executive, it's actually critical we bring this person because they're going to be a board member, they're going to be giving a big gift. I mean, we have to be practical here. Then the speaker makes sense. If it's just because somebody knows someone, no, and then you go to the logistics. The reason that's blended is because speakers are very important to an organization. They usually are potential board members or they could be spokespeople or whomever. And so now we get into how do you want these people treated? And that can help the lower level staff Once we shine a bright light on how you want to treat these speakers. That is a resource and capacity issue Do you have the ability to treat this speaker the way you are outlining? They need to be treated or want to be treated, and I tell you, whenever I come and do this exercise, all the people who've been working on the event usually come and hug me and cry in the hallway because they're like you showed them that they are putting us sometimes in an impossible situation to get these speakers but then also manage them at the level they need to if they're getting a high level speaker. So that's one that's very important, that people can use as a leverage point to either get additional staffing or help. The other one is registration management. Same thing. It helps the people on those rungs or on those front lines of working on the event get more resources, because, if it just as important of holding the minutes of people is critical Right capturing the data on these people and not letting that go, and that actually leads to experience. That's not extractive, that is not predatory, it's also helpful. These people want to be involved, they'd like to be a part of you and if you drop them off the curb after the event, that's also not pleasant or conscientious. So registration management usually means you're buying a software system because you don't want to keep them in your Excel grid and you want to buy a software system where you're not forcing someone to become a coder if they're not one, or you're hiring an outside firm to manage that registration.

Speaker 4:

Again, this is where, once we do the build of this strategy, we show the mansion you want to build. We can make a smaller mansion, but what we're not going to do is build a shack. We're not going to start at the beginning and build you a shack. We're going to show the mansion and maybe we shrink it. I always say a Tiffany box can be a small Tiffany box, but it's going to retain the qualities of the Tiffany box. You're not going to ever have a shack at the beginning and in three years end up at a mansion. But you could end up at a small mansion and then build it for your event. Registration management helps you do that. You usually need software systems, especially in today's day and age, to accommodate capturing your data, working with the people who want to support you, who are going to come back over and over again to communicate with them through the year. So registration management is one of our 10 essentials to think through at the beginning.

Speaker 4:

And then I would say one more then I'll stop is brand, look and feel. Brand look and feel is very important because we talk about how do you want them to feel, and not just I'm sure you'd like this then not just when they get on site, but if they've had a not great experience in the lead up, like an email came in, or maybe five more emails came in, or maybe the link wasn't there, or who knows what happened, you know, maybe instead they get a handwritten card as an invite. That's a, that's a feel, that's a, that's a brand there. And if what someone has said in the success metrics is we want our grantees, we want our funders, we want this group of people to feel incredibly special, well then we need to make them feel incredibly special before they get on site. And then, when they get on site, we can make them, and this doesn't have to take a ton of money either. In fact, usually special means more intention and actually less money.

Speaker 4:

You know if they arrive, if you arrive, john and I said you know I'm really glad in the survey that you said you love Chardonnay or you love Pinot Grigio, and here's a glass of Pinot Grigio to have while you wait to register, or I know you love a latte or you know something small, or you wrote in and said that the birds we have on our logo are important to you, so we printed one out and we put it on your bed with a custom note. That is special, that is a brand look and feel. So it doesn't, like I said, you don't have to go expensive on this brand look and feel. In fact, like I said, sometimes that can feel too sanitized, but this is the time and the space that an organization needs to have to think of these things, as opposed to running around in logistics, which is where they get sucked into Because bigger leverage in logistics.

Speaker 4:

Who do we want to come? How do we want them to feel? Registration Once we have these people, how do we want to communicate with them and how do we keep them as an organization for all the money we put in? And then brand look and feel what are those touches that really are going to set our event apart and make people understand that our entire brand is? Whatever it is care, conscientiousness, ambition, bold ideas. What is that and how are we communicating that in our event?

Speaker 3:

I'm obsessed with that. I love the idea of connecting how you want to show up in the world into those intentional, meaningful touch points, because it makes me think of what you said at the top. Of this was the goal is that they want to come back where they're going to be like, oh I missed it, I want to hear what happened. And it's like those kinds of moments are what stick with you that you may hold and put in a drawer and take with you. So, um, you know we've got a wide listener base of nonprofit folks and changemakers around the world. What's something that's even for those with a limited time, limited budget. Do you think really can make gatherings intentional?

Speaker 4:

Yeah, you're right, and I'm glad you're saying that too, because sometimes I get into like the larger ones that we work with, but we've worked with very small ones too, and sometimes you can do the 10 essentials in a couple of pages, you know, just just even kind of go into those. What do I want to do? How do I want to manage people? And you can think conceptually, so, let's say, you can't afford a registration system or whatever, but but you can do a Google form. You know you can. We actually do that for a lot of our events. Frankly, google forms Great. And and how can I think of what I want? To ask these people ahead of time to really understand them and then make sure that I offer those people something that I've asked them. Just that alone, just those. That one little step.

Speaker 4:

I'm going to do a Google form. I'm going to ask them what do you want out of this and what will make this a gathering that you will be, um, be excited, pleased, happy that you came to that. You could say the day after that makes it a success for you, for you, wow. If that question was added to a Google form again, this could be a 20 person gathering. You just have time to put the Google form up. That's it. That would change your event.

Speaker 4:

And then you can also ask them too how much time are you willing to devote to sitting and listening versus connecting? And that will tell you your content mix and that will also get out of your folks again. Maybe they really are there to learn, and learn can sometimes be a lean back experience and that's fine. There are events where 80% should be content. I'm here to learn, I'm here to understand, I'm okay with that, and actually, if you give me too much networking time, you're missing the boat. I wanted to learn about the subject. So, um, asking that balance will also be your second way, in a sense that you're already doing your content, mapping your audience mix in one little Google form, and then you go do your 20 person workshop and it will already feel better for those attendees and for you to have a better chance of success.

Speaker 3:

If I was a multitasker, I'd be adding this to our form.

Speaker 1:

But I will do it after the recording.

Speaker 2:

I'd be adding this to our form. I feel like Heather has just proven to me how someone with such a highly logical brain can create something that is so human, based off that logic model. Because what you just said right there and I would even say, if you heard nothing in this entire conversation, if you pull out that Google form question of what do you want to get out of this so that it is worth your time that to me, and what we do in development, is everything. It tells a major gift officer why you're there. It tells a donor relations professional how you like to be thanked. It tells someone who is assigned to you.

Speaker 2:

What you care about, what you are asking about, is belonging. How can I help you feel seen? How can I help you feel value in this? And that is why I believe our work is so deeply important. And if we can connect missions to who you are as a human and make this mission connect with that, I mean the world is our oyster. And I just think what you have said here is so beautiful, it's such a simple framework and I really think it can shift everything. And so, heather, you have probably sensed that we really value the power of story. We believe in generosity and we like to ask all of our guests about a moment of philanthropy or kindness that deeply moved you and has stayed with you, whether it was in your work or in your day to day. Is there one, a story maybe lifting for you like that?

Speaker 4:

Wow. I am a big believer in helping the people who are right in front of you. I think that, to me, is what touches me the most and that is what I try to do, because I think it's easier, it's easy to put and this is where I think words like scale sometimes obstruct our ability to see people right in mama, because I feel like she is the example to me of that exact person. So my mom decided that in her church that the children didn't have anything to do when they would do these big campaigns to give to building a homeless shelter or helping crowdsource for blankets for people, and so she started a thing called Penny Power at church, and so all it is is it's this big, it's a really cool vase she bought at HomeGoods and she gets a little kid to stand up every week and only the little kids are supposed to go up and they put coins in it. And then every week they come back and they say we bought this many socks for kids here in Idaho Falls, and then every week it'll be, and then they get to pick.

Speaker 4:

My mom will say, what do you want to give to? And they'll say, well, people in the hospital, okay, so my mom will find something. And it's amazing because often the parents will give to the kids who go up and give it. But the kids are obsessed now with my mom and who they can give to and they wait for penny power and it's pennies. But if I told you all the people who've been affected by those gifts, and especially if those gifts are given by children, so that when you need those fuzzy socks, you know when you have surgery as an elderly person, you know you need your fuzzy. I've been in that situation. I'm not elderly, you know there's fuzzy socks after your surgery. So the kids bought fuzzy socks and I think that was really touching because that is the type of philanthropy that is right in front of you and that children can do. It is really powerful too.

Speaker 2:

She puts together, you know, sundance, and she talks about her mother. What's your mom's name? Carol, mason Carol.

Speaker 1:

Idaho.

Speaker 3:

Falls.

Speaker 4:

Idaho Falls, penny power.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I mean, that's what it's all about and you know we spend our careers in nonprofit, like 15, 20 years, and it's funny because we look back and we're like baked into the core values of we are for good. Is it's about belief instead of donations? Because it's not about the money, it's about finding believers and your mom is literally training and showing the power of this whole generation that this really does matter.

Speaker 3:

And it translates to fuzzy socks this week and I don't know what it'll be next week. But how beautiful, um, what a masterclass. And just showing up for each other right in front of us. Okay, Our last question Heather, you know I'm I'm grieving that we're repping up is to ask for your one good thing, and that could be a piece of advice or a mantra that's you hold tight, or just something that's lifting for you in this conversation what's your one good thing?

Speaker 4:

Okay, my one good thing is going to be um, a phrase that I made up, but all my staff know it by heart, because whenever they say something that's like, oh, I don't know how we're going to do this, and I always look at them and they know it now before I say it. You know how, when you're a mom and the kid is like, I know what you're going to say yeah, oh, yeah.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, and I'm not a mom, but basically my staff is like oh, here it goes. Miles is like here she goes again. I totally am. I've heard this so many times and my phrase is if it's not gravity, it can be changed.

Speaker 2:

I love that.

Speaker 3:

That's so good.

Speaker 1:

Good.

Speaker 4:

Because it's not when they say, well, they can't, can they? Did a man make that up? Did a human being say that a plane had to leave on time? I think they did, and a human has changed that multiple times. So make them change when the plane takes off, that's not possible. So I always give them a test. I go. One of the early tests, with a lot of staff that we used to do was call up your credit card company and get your annual fee waived.

Speaker 4:

Don't come back until you do. Don't come back Because I need you to push on the universe a little bit and I need you to see that the spoon will fall down if you push it, just like the matrix. There is no spoon and I need you to see the world. There is no spoon. Why are traffic lights red, green and yellow? I don't know. Could we change it? We could, we could. It's not gravity, it could be changed. So once you have the mindset that if it's not gravity, it can be changed, then anything can be changed, because we live with these worlds that are basically built of straw, that were made up, and we have to go along with them or society would fall apart, but not seeing that they are made of straw is a problem when you actually want to change things is a problem when you actually want to change things. So you must understand where those things are rigid in gravity and where they are not, which is pretty much everywhere else.

Speaker 2:

Can you imagine having a boss like Heather and like saying push those limits, dream bigger, do not see the walls, do not live in scarcity like abundant thinking I need you pushed I, I just think.

Speaker 1:

And no annual fees. What could be?

Speaker 2:

better winner, winner chicken dinner or winner winner? You have already given your raise and you didn't even know it.

Speaker 1:

Maybe I'm just exactly it that's it.

Speaker 2:

It. I just think you're it, heather, I just think this is, this is the way to think about things, and you have reframed so much for this of just not just events, not just gathering, but in the way we human, and so thank you for that. I know people are going to want to connect with you. Tell them where you hang out online. How can they connect with you? The Caspian Agency, all the things.

Speaker 4:

Sure you bet. So easy. Email heather at caspianagencycom. Very easy, I'm on LinkedIn. I think I was one of the first Heather Masons, so that's cool, oh way to grab that SEO.

Speaker 2:

We're proud of you. I did.

Speaker 4:

So Heather Mason and you do California or Caspian. I should pop up Heather Mason Caspian on LinkedIn and I'm trying to learn how to do Instagram. I'm Heather Mason, la, but that is very infrequent and I don't understand it quite well.

Speaker 2:

You know what You're trying things, and that's the important thing, yeah.

Speaker 4:

And our website's easy Dub, dub, dub uh. Caspian agencycom.

Speaker 2:

Well, we will link all that up in the show notes and please go check out Heather's work, go check out Caspian's work. I mean, I think you're going to learn a thing or two, friends, um, and I'm just feeling really grateful that we had this time together and that you could blow our minds in the best possible way and re help us rethink things.

Speaker 3:

John, I can see your face and I see how happy you are right now, yes, but like excited to like implement, to like that You're. So it's such an empowering voice that we can change things. We don't have to, you know, stick with the status quo. This is an energizing conversation, so really grateful for you, my friend.

Speaker 4:

Come back. Thank you, this was so fun, loved it. Thank you.