Gather At The Well: Human-Centered Offboarding - Lindsey Fuller

How do we navigate the hardest moments in leadership, without losing sight of our values?

This week on Gather at the Well, Lindsey Fuller returns to explore a topic that doesn’t often get the care it deserves: offboarding. Whether it’s layoffs, transitions, or role closures, Lindsey reminds us that how we say goodbye matters just as much as how we welcome someone in.

She invites us into a more human-centered approach—one that acknowledges the weight of these decisions, the grief that can come with them, and the opportunity for real compassion, even in hard moments.

This episode is a brave, honest invitation to lead with heart—even when it’s hard. Because the way we part ways speaks volumes about the kind of culture we’re building. 💛

Affirmations: 

• "I am enough."
• "I choose self compassion."
• "I am learning from my mistakes and the mistakes of others."
• "This decision does not define me."
• "I can take in the past and make the present more healing."

Episode Highlights

• Human-Centered Off-Ramps: Key Elements (10:50)
• Communication and Transparency in Leadership (20:27)
• Whole Person Supports During Transitions (30:02)
• The impact of Compassionate Off-Boarding (40:10)

Full Episode Shownotes: 

www.weareforgood.com/episode/humancenteredoffboarding

Chapters

• 0:02 Setting the Stage for Human-Centered Off-Ramps
• 6:44 The Reality of Workforce Reductions
• 10:48 Self-Compassion Somatic Practice
• 15:40 Leadership Alignment and Transparency
• 22:20 Communication Cascade and Whole Person Supports
• 27:20 Finger Hold Somatic Practice for Regulation
• 32:11 The Benefits of Human-Centered Transitions
• 36:54 Final Reflections and Homework Assignment

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:02

I'm Lindsay, and it's time to gather at the well. We're on a mission to microdose wellness, create human-centered systems and retain our greatest asset our people. We believe it's time for podcasts that teach moving beyond thought leadership and towards change leadership. Join us and our friends at we Are For good as we model the way with concrete examples from the field and gain tangible tools, because it's possible to build adult work cultures. We don't need to heal from. Let's get into it. Welcome in. Welcome back to Gather at the Well. We're excited you returned and made space.

Speaker 1: 0:42

Today actually launches a two-part segment focused on human-centered off-ramps. Let's talk about what's happening right now. As we look, it feels like daily, there are socials or media sources, perhaps even personal friends, acquaintances or colleagues informing us of mass layoffs. Money is funny. We are looking at a potential recession, but I want to talk to those of you out there who, similarly, are facing potential workforce reductions. The good ones, though, the ones who don't want to lay folks off, who feel crushed, who did everything in your power to avoid this decision, but whose budget or board made the decision for you.

Speaker 1: 1:37

Not all workforce reductions are consensual, and leaders agonize over these decisions. At least the good ones do. Sometimes we can fall into a binary division the abusers or the saviors and neither are sustainable solutions in the field. There's a need for nuance, and your ability to gain clarity, containment, to communicate and ultimately to care about your people makes a world of a difference. This is the shadow work and ugly underbelly of leadership.

Speaker 1: 2:15

Before we jump in too deep into content, let's engage in a little somatic. This is a somatic focused on self-compassion. Whether you're the one experiencing that hard news or the one giving it, self-compassion is going to be critical in this moment. So you might adjust yourself to find any amount of comfort because, let's be real, these types of decisions are soaked in discomfort. But adjust yourself, maybe stacking your vertebrae, rolling your shoulders back, closing your eyes or lowering your gaze if that feels accessible, taking three deep breaths here, in through the nose and out through the mouth, two more, just like that, and as you return to a steady cadence, normal breath. You might first get curious about what your soma is communicating to you. Are you having racing thoughts, guilt or shame? Storage pockets throughout your body? Is your nervous system feeling dysregulated or maybe there are body cues indicating that this is a tense topic? Can you unclench your jaw, unfurl your grasp, relax those hands, anchor your feet by pushing them into the ground.

Speaker 1: 4:14

There's so much duality in these decisions. Two things can be true you care deeply about the individual or the company that you're working for, and also there's a cloak of disappointment. Each of you, no matter which side of the aisle you're sitting on, is doing the best that you can. And if you're not, may this moment just be a kiss to the soul of self-compassion, remembering that we all make mistakes. We can compost perfectionism, we can invite in growth and meet this moment summoning patience for ourselves and others, along with grace, inviting self-forgiveness and awareness. You're more than this decision, and also it needs to happen. So how do we bring in just waves and waves of compassion and care? First, it begins with you. You might whisper to yourself I'm doing my best, we'll get through this together, blinking your eyes open or stretching a little to reawaken. That last line might feel like a contradiction. Wait a minute, we're in this together. We'll get through this together. Actually, this whole thing is about separating, ending the professional relationship as it currently is articulated, that's true, but turning against one another, feeding the divisive narrative of us versus them, othering the person that is going through a major life transition. None of that serves us. Going through a major life transition, none of that serves us. So, even if you have a little bit of resistance to this concept, I invite you to be mindful, to try on something different, just for the next 30 minutes or so, to consider what's possible if we choose each other during difficult transitions, and let's explore. So.

Speaker 1: 6:46

As y'all know, the Teaching Well works across the country with not only schools and districts, but also nonprofit organizations. And during this administration's first presidency and the peak of the dual pandemic of COVID-19 and the racial uprising, there was an influx of philanthropic dollars and one-time funding from state and federal agencies. And when we saw this enormous flood of funding surge through social impact institutions, there were common trends that emerged. A boom in budget led to rapid expansion and scaling of programmatic lines, ballooning out teams and recently, at the South by Southwest conference that our director of innovations Rebbe anxiety in personal budgets, leading to a decrease in individual giving. We don't have a staffing shortage. We do have a staffing shortage. We do have a staffing crisis because what happened in that time is that we really emphasized middle management positions in schools. That looked like creating more coaching roles, more student support roles, creating larger administrative teams and don't get me wrong, all of those positions have in some ways made schooling on the adult side of things, more sustainable. And in nonprofits we're seeing as directors teams increased, ours doubled as a result of additional funding. Right, more manager roles, more lead or principal positions, and that is what it is. But now we have higher salary folks and lots of them that we can't sustain financially.

Speaker 1: 9:02

There's a reshuffling that has to occur, an invitation perhaps to roles that folks no longer see as aligned with their career advancement. The roles that are open may also have lower salaries, less benefits, less flexibility, and I know in schools some of the movement that you're afforded as an administrator is something that's really challenging to give up. Once you've tasted not being bound by the bell, no matter how much you love kids and teaching, it can be very, very hard to transition back into a more restricted role. So some of you are in this hard place of having to course correct for the large team and the large budget that currently you can't sustain. This is where human-centered off-ramps occur. Maybe you can shuffle folks. Ideally you were having those conversations months ago, and not having conversations at people, but having them with those who are most impacted. But for some of you and many of my ED friends across the country are suffering as they look at staffing cuts.

Speaker 1: 10:21

So what are the elements of human-centered off-ramps and this concept of an off-ramp being kind of the other side of onboarding? It's the off-boarding work, I think, of four major categories leadership, alignment, timing and transparency. Of course, the containing communication, cascade and then whole person supports. I'll take us through the first two, we'll hit a little somatic and then we'll get at the next two. It's really key and you know I already told y'all alignment is my love language.

Speaker 1: 11:01

It's key that any party that would field questions or share in the decision making reality or even the optics, be brought along on the journey. That means that before you are informing a teammate, you should make sure your entire leadership squad, as well as your supervision team, be made aware of this transition. Now for a matter of integrity, honest and respect. Ask yourselves and this is even if you aren't of integrity, honest and respect. Ask yourselves and this is even if you aren't currently reducing your workforce. Would you know exactly who it would be If we were having a confidential coaching session and I asked you if you had to cut a position, who would it be and why would you instantly know? But the bigger question is is that person aware? This is a uncomfortable truth, but it's one that we're seeing across the nation.

Speaker 1: 11:51

Too many school district and nonprofit leaders say, well, they should know we have performance concerns because we're doing additional observations or we review their weekly work plans or lesson plans, or we've increased their supervision cadence Okay. But then when you tell that staff member this is at least what we're seeing at the teaching well that their role is being terminated for the next school year or fiscal year, they're shocked. That shock is a really, really important data point. That's because you were unclear. Important data point. That's because you were unclear. And while their performance and growth is their responsibility, their development opportunities and status clarity inside of your organization is your responsibility. So leadership alignment is key, but there's also alignment with the impacted teammate Marisol and I share in one of the episodes in this series about our human-centered co-leadership beliefs, and one of them is provide formative data, provide formative feedback, no gotchas. It should not feel like a surprise to folks. So whether that's an early indication in your budget that a grant may not be renewed, or whether it's related to performance concerns. The ethical thing to do is to give them a heads up, to give them that direct feedback.

Speaker 1: 13:19

When it comes to timing and transparency, please, lord, don't wait until two weeks before you have to end the position. Stop doing that. That is a guaranteed way not only to make you look disorganized and cruel, honestly, but it also doesn't give them the opportunity to be set up for success In the education field. We know that folks are looking during winter break. They're applying and interviewing during spring break. We can't wait to have stay conversations and similarly, we shouldn't wait to have off-boarding conversations until the final quarter of the school year. You're literally impacting their ability to land on their feet and that's not only an unfair offering towards someone who has worked inside of your team. It is hindering their ability to provide for themselves and their family system. No justice, no peace. It's a warning, because typically that's not going to set them up to want to really give their all to close up contracts, client work with integrity. When they're scrambling to find financial security, when the threat of ending medical benefits for them and their children is now on the table, you probably aren't going to get their best version. So as early as possible is key, and transparency in terms of discussing how this does or does not align with your values personally as a leader, but also as the organization, in addition to the degree to which you can lift the veil on your budget and the implications on the team. At the end of the day, everyone's watching and, even if their role isn't being eliminated, they are observing you and how you treat their colleagues and personalizing the decision insofar as understanding that this is how I too will be treated. And, as Rebbe would say, transparency is the foundation for trust.

Speaker 1: 15:40

All right, so we've covered two of the four reflections on human-centered off-ramps. Let's take just a brief moment to orient the body, to bring the shoulders back, if you're like me. Challenging topics sometimes cause me to constrict my body, to have my shoulders cave forward, for my posture to be compromised. So a quick chest opening stretch. You might lock your hands behind your back, eyes open or closed, pulling your hands down away from your lower back, feeling the opening, the stretching, the spaciousness of your front body, taking three deep breaths in again here, audible exhales. For this last breath you might try and move just a one percent more spacious position, shaking out your arms and your shoulders. Coming back to attention, all right, so you're probably big eye emoji, eye rolling or pearl clutching or groaning. Come on, lind, with the communication cascade enough, but I can't get enough because it should be in every leader's toolkit and also I'll stop talking about it when I start seeing people do it with fidelity.

Speaker 1: 17:28

So, thinking back to season one of gather, at the well microdosing wellness, when we talked about navigating uncertainty, and the me at the well microdosing wellness when we talked about navigating uncertainty and the me we world progression, before this decision is communicated, you need to get clear with yourself. That's the me. How do I want to show up in these conversations? What is my plan for the communication cascade? I often ask leaders at the end of the conversation or meeting what are the three things that you want that individual to know or be able to do? Don't freestyle that part. Write them out. And what is the self-care plan during this tumultuous time? Do I need to schedule an extra therapy appointment? Am I storing tension in my neck every time I think about having to make this news public? Schedule that body work. How will I tend to me so that I can show up embodied, representing my values, clear and containing.

Speaker 1: 18:39

Next, there's a couple of folks implicated in the we portion of the progression. I already talked about your leadership team and your supervisors, but, and also the impacted individual. You also need to start forecasting forward vision towards the rest of your internal team. How and when will you let them know? Pro tip please don't allot 10 minutes. I would triple the time that you think will be needed, because you may have somatic resistance leading to embracing behaviors, and or you may be rushing to get yourself out of discomfort. So whatever you think is the appropriate amount of time, triple it.

Speaker 1: 19:18

If you finish early, everybody loves their time back, but if you run out of time, you're creating the context for anxiety, for uncertainty, for misalignment, to leave the space, feeling like this wasn't a priority. Folks aren't cared for here. You couldn't even make enough space in the agenda to honor news of this weight. So do yourself a favor and create enough space. And then there's the world. There's the public comms.

Speaker 1: 19:48

Now, you may have eye rolled me when I said communication cascade, but I got a deep eye roll for the folks who say it's budget and then list the position two weeks later Oof, that's cringeworthy. Everybody knows what you did there. It takes integrity, courage and respect to say the thing. If there are performance concerns and budgetary concerns, I'm watching too many leaders lean on the budget part because they are conflict avoidant. I'm watching too many leaders lean on the budget part because they are conflict avoidant. The truth always comes to light. So you might as well do them the favor, do yourself the favor and be integrous and let them know, as uncomfortable as it is, again, that formative feedback, the no-gotches approach, these teammates should have already known, because if you list the position two weeks later, it communicates. It in fact was not a financial challenge. You either didn't like that teammate or there were performance concerns. But they have the right to know and the next leader that inherits them and hires them will thank you also because you're a part of cultivating the self-awareness that lets them know these are professional growth areas that you should carry forward to the next position and continue to hone those skills.

Speaker 1: 21:08

And our last invitational bucket here is whole person supports. I already referenced those co-leadership beliefs that Marisol and I use to inform all mindful decision-making, but the one that comes to mind here is that all employees are deserving of dignity and respect. Until the very end, was this person, a phenomenal collaborator getting incredible results. Treat them accordingly. You can't predict the future, but maybe they'll come back around, maybe you'll have another large grant, maybe, bravely, state federal dollars for education are increased because the whole world recognizes that it takes money to tend to children. Imagine that. But you want to leave the opportunity for them to reflect back and say not everything was amazing, but they really took care of me, even after they made the tough decision to eliminate my role. And maybe that individual was actually gossipy, divisive and spreading misinformation about your organization. Treat them accordingly. Also information about your organization. Treat them accordingly also.

Speaker 1: 22:20

I'm talking about recognizing their behavior patterns, their maladaptive tendencies to disparage the organization or your staff. Leaving them with venom in their mouth will likely materialize and hits to your company's reputation. So put some honey on their tongue. I'm not saying be disingenuine. I'm saying still, even for problematic teammates, you want to treat them with respect and dignity on their way out. It's a win-win. I promise you it is the best.

Speaker 1: 22:48

Look Now there is one asterisk and I might get in trouble talking about it, but there are the litigious leeches, and this is a very small subgroup. Who's ruined it for everybody? They are bouncing around suing repeatedly Now bless their mental health because it's likely impacted, but there's also a certain element of vindictive and antisocial behavior associated with jumping from school to school or nonprofit to nonprofit and actually making your primary career focus finding a reason to sue. You ran out of splindrifts in the staff lounge or you stubbed your toe going to the bathroom? Quit playing. You're making it harder for everyone else who's actually working hard, trying to grow, making contributions and perhaps is being laid off. So I'm not talking about them.

Speaker 1: 23:39

And if you're a leader and you're dealing with one of those and as someone that now is anchored inside of school districts and I see these folks popping up at a new site and I'm like, ooh, that's rough, lean on your legal team, call in HR, but that's the outlier experience. Don't treat everyone else's off-boarding experience as if they are that person. So what are examples of whole person supports that you might integrate in an off-boarding experience? We are often coaching folks to think about how do you provide a safety net for the quarter after they transition? And some of y'all are like, obviously, if we don't have the funding Lindsay, I know, I know, but some of you do so you might be able to get a COBRA insurance plan for the three months after help them be covered. You might be able to sustain the wellness stipend that you provide for the same length of time. If you don't provide wellness stipends, you can pay for therapy for three months in advance for this person. You might identify workshops or resources via your benefits company or unemployment benefits that you can share, allowing for resume revisions if you're able to support them with that in the final supervision meetings, creating cover letters that really speak to their gifts and, of course, being a reference whenever possible Though again, how many times can I have an asterisk in this episode?

Speaker 1: 25:14

I do really believe, obviously, in integrity, and so you can ask anyone about me. If someone requests a reference from me, I'll let them know. Absolutely, I'm happy to do one. Most of what I'll say is going to be glowing. The area of growth I would name is blank. I'm going to give you the opportunity to consent into inviting me to be your reference and if I have not so great news to share, I also let them know that it would be challenging for me to provide you with a reference. I would need to tell the truth. Here's some of the topics that I would illuminate. Are you still sure you want me to be your reference? That's happened infrequently, but again, can we normalize honesty, please? Happened infrequently, but again, can we normalize honesty, please.

Speaker 1: 26:01

So one quick closure programming example that we have, because we do have programming that's focused on school closures and mergers. Whenever possible, we want to encourage re-empowerment, right Strategic preparation and sustainable outreach when we have large numbers of teammates that are going to be re-entering the field looking for work. So, with one school that we were supporting as they were navigating a closure, we actually created a book, a book full of headshots, resumes and reference letters for all of the teammates who had yet to secure a new role. Think a yearbook and I'm not saying a yearbook to make light of a very serious transitional period. I say it because it was a memento of care and a symbol of solidarity. And that book was then shared with neighboring schools and districts, which cut down the labor for folks that were searching for the role, made the hiring process at these schools and districts easier. Right, a whole batch of qualified, beautiful humans at their doorstep. The bottom line is be as generous as you are able. Everyone benefits when they are either experiencing or witnessing a caring, human-centered off-ramp.

Speaker 1: 27:26

Let's drop in for an additional somatic. This is one of my favorite practices, called finger holds. I use it often when leaders call after a crisis or maybe a stressful meeting. It's a really efficient and effective way to get back into your body. So to do this, you might again position your body in a comfortable but alert position. You might again position your body in a comfortable but alert position, stacking your vertebrae so that your posture feels aligned, dropping your shoulders from your ears and anchoring your feet into the ground, taking a deep, clearing breath.

Speaker 1: 28:21

Here we're just going to engage with the thumbs today. To do this, you'll take the thumb of your non-dominant hand and lay it directly into the palm of your dominant one. Take your four fingers and wrap them around so that you're holding, not gripping, the thumb. Imagine you're cradling it. Your only job in this moment is to be still and focused enough to source into the heartbeat. You might feel the heartbeat in your thumb or the pulse inside of your hand If your mind wanders. If your mind wanders, you might just gently return to a mindfulness orientation, breathing slowly and fully and working to feel the pulse in that finger hold. Feel free to stay there or, if you'd like to switch to cradle the other thumb again, slowing the breath, seeing if you can locate the pulse in your thumb, the palm or perhaps both. And if you can't, that's okay. You're still winning because you're engaging in breath work. But if you can, just remembering you're in the present moment, your heart is pumping, be present with your body, you're ready to move forward. You might gently roll your neck, flutter your eyes open, yawn or stretch, ideally looking to a natural source of light or an image of joy in your space, re-regulating the nervous system so we can get back to it. So there's some inside out work that happens when we engage in human-centered off-ramps. You may be wondering what is the benefit of doing it this way.

Speaker 1: 30:57

Lindsay, I got a lot on my to-do list For me over the course of my career. I found that many folks who transition come back around. It's a small world, not the Disney version, the professional one. It may be folks hitting you up when they see you transition to a new school and saying, hey, if you have any openings, I'd love to work for you again. It may be their career takes off and they're on LinkedIn or in the media being interviewed, and they have that sweet reference, one of the compliments and ways that I try and honor some of the non-toxic bosses because I've had many toxic ones, but the awesome ones I've worked for is that I continue to reference them. I quote them and I refer to them as critical parts of my development along the years, like Ben Gonzalez, who taught me that we don't have to agree but we do have to align. My entire leadership team has heard me say that so many times and I always reference him. Be the one that can be referenced. Do that for someone else. They may end up in philanthropy, they may end up in an abundant life and they're able to reach back and support. And they plug your organization, they donate themselves. You have a new position open and they're ready to come back and give. Plug your organization, they donate themselves. You have a new position open and they're ready to come back and give it their all.

Speaker 1: 32:22

That's some of the inside out work, but there's also this concept of the corrective experience, and this inspiration is drawn from the clinical world. I'm a clinical groupie, if you don't know, but it's this corrective, relational experience whereby a client, with the support of a safe and therapeutic clinician, is able to experience a shift in perspective or relationship or understanding around an event or a memory or a pattern in their life. You may not be a clinician, but you for sure have a relationship and are positioned to escort in deep reflection during this transitional period with your staff member or your teammate. Examples of a corrective experience could be like well, in the clinical world, someone who has difficulty trusting who's had their trust abused and violated may experience a corrective experience when they feel truly understood and accepted by their therapist. And so what's possible, and something that gives me hope and inspiration, even in these really challenging, turbulent moments, is to say I might be the first and the only leader that holds this person with dignity, respect and grace. Even if their performance has been a professional disappointment for both of us, I might be the one. What a gift, what an honor and a privilege it is to be able to usher in a corrective experience that you're not going to be discarded, that I'm not going to abandon you or knock you, that I'm not going to mistreat you or tear down your reputation, that I'm going to show up and say this is where we part ways, but let's do this in a way that is mutually honoring of both your experience and the org's needs as a gift. Be a part of someone's corrective experience. That's actually how we engage in collective liberation, even in moments where freedom doesn't feel like the central focus.

Speaker 1: 34:24

A couple of affirmations I might offer you. Whether you're the leader needing to deliver this news or the one that's receiving it. You might even just be a colleague who's holding space for your peer who's learned that their role is being eliminated. Try these on peer who's learned that their role is being eliminated. Try these on. I am enough. I choose self-compassion. I'm learning from my mistakes and the mistakes of others. This decision does not define me. I can take in the past and make the present more healing For your homework assignment. I'm going to invite you to externalize your human-centered off-ramp and no, it doesn't have to be a multi-page PDF with images and branded logo. It's also not an invitation to start doomsday prepping. It's just a gentle codifying of your values while you're at baseline. So if and when this occurs inside of your organization, you can respond and not react.

Speaker 1: 35:30

You might meet with your leadership team at a downtime of year For us, june is really quiet. Send your policy handbook to them as pre-work, consult with your attorney and draft a four-point plan with the categories explored today. How would you align with leadership? What would be your timing and transparency? Ie, how would you backwards map? How early would you start? What would your containing communication cascade, look sound and feel like, and what are the whole person supports that you could offer and sustain?

Speaker 1: 36:06

To close with a bit of critical hope, this too is a way for us to steward our funding responsibly. It's time for organizations, even with an influx of resources, to scale sustainably. I know that some funders are pressuring you to duplicate your programs at an enormous scale, but we need to be disciplined and realistic. Of course, we want your impact to reach as far as it can, but that's not at the cost of hiring and firing. Whether you're planning to fortify your organization or are meeting the present moment that requires you to off-board an employee. This is an often neglected professional reality that requires our attention, our empathy and our care. Whether they were a culture keeper or a culture killer, their transitional experience is more a reflection of you and the organization's values than it is of them. Don't poison the well. Employ harm reduction practices and whole person supports. We can reduce employment trauma for our departing teammates, and they deserve it. We do too, plus the next place they land, perhaps working with students in a new school or amplifying the mission of a different vital nonprofit. If they can come from a place of respect and not resentment, it will accelerate their impact for good in place of long suffering. So be a part of a healing centered solution. This is in the locus of your control.

Speaker 1: 37:42

I want to thank you for tuning in and, if this episode resonated at all with you, please look for the subsequent one, where we're going to be inviting a special guest. We're going to talk about everything from sabbaticals to leaving well, talk about everything from sabbaticals to leaving well, excited to be in community with you, as always, and I hope today and the rest of your week is glorious. All right, y'all. Thanks for coming to play at Gather at the Well the podcast that teaches. If you like this conversation, come visit us online at theteachingwellorg and hit us up on our socials. Remember to visit the podcast page to download a couple of useful tools to get your life and heal up your work.