615. Hold Fast: How To Strengthen Your Operational Core - Scott Curran

In this special episode of our Hold Fast series, we’re bringing you a replay from our March members-only meetup featuring nonprofit legal and operational powerhouse, Scott Curran.

As the former Chief General Counsel for the Clinton Foundation, Scott has navigated massive change and complexity — and he joined us to help you do the same. In this timely conversation, Scott walks us through the essential operational steps every nonprofit should be taking to prepare for a period of federal upheaval and uncertainty.

We cover everything from accounting and legal, to HR, leadership development, and board structure — with actionable takeaways you can put into practice right away. It’s grounding, insightful, and exactly the kind of clear-headed guidance we all need right now.

✨ Want to be part of conversations like this in real time? Join our membership for just $30/month and never miss a member meetup again.

Thank You to our Partners 🩵

Big gratitude to our ecosystem partners at DonorDock, Feathr, RKD Group, and Whiteboard. They’re not just partners—they’re walking alongside us to build something better + more inclusive.

Head to weareforgood.com/recs to explore our go-to tools and humans doing good work. We’ve curated a direct line for your VIP access to these groups just by saying you’re with We Are For Good. 

Chapters

• 0:00 Grounding in Uncertainty with Scott Curran
• 4:15 Centering Exercise and Introduction
• 8:45 Navigating Chaos with Calm Leadership
• 16:09 Vision as Your Organizational North Star
• 28:24 The BOPP Framework: Structure Creates Calm
• 36:09 Board Meetings and Governance Excellence
• 44:54 Team Management and HR Best Practices
• 51:49 DEI Reframing and Adapting to Headwinds

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

We're the people, we're the community. This is the work, this is the moment. We didn't expect it, or invite it, or anticipate it, or necessarily want it, but here we are. We can do this, we're doing this, we've done this.

Speaker 2: 0:14

Hey friends, today we're sharing a very special replay from one of our monthly member meetups a powerful conversation with none other than Scott Curran. Scott joined us in March to help guide our community through the operational must-dos in this tumultuous period of federal upheaval. We kicked things off with a little grounding and gathering time and then Scott walked us through how to get our back of house in order, from accounting and legal to branding, hr, board governance, leadership training and more. If you like conversations like this one and want to connect with thoughtful, grounded leaders like Scott in real time, come join our membership. We need you. It's just $30 a month and you'll never miss a member meetup again. All right, let's dive into this awesome conversation. Hey, I'm John.

Speaker 2: 1:01

And I'm Becky. And this is the we Are For Good podcast. Nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world.

Speaker 3: 1:13

We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an impact uprising.

Speaker 2: 1:22

So welcome to the good community. We're nonprofit professionals, philanthropists, world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world. So let's get started.

Speaker 2: 1:35

It's so good to see you all. I'm so glad that you're here today because you are going to get some incredible coaching from not only one of the foremost experts and nonprofit structure, but also kindness and hope and compassion. I mean, there's a reason that we call Scott Curran the nonprofit Ted Lasso. You are going to get that vibe today, but he has got some incredible wisdom today. But we just really feel like this is a time right now to really talk about what should we be doing with our businesses? What should we be doing with our missions? How are we managing the chaos that is around us?

Speaker 2: 2:14

Right now, and before we get into it, we are going to do a centering, just a quick one-minute breathing exercise. I want everybody to just sort of get grounded in this. So if you can just take a moment to arrive wherever you are, I want you to allow yourself to just sit really comfortably, feet on the ground, hands resting gently. If it feels really safe for you, I want you to gently close your eyes or soften your gaze and I want you to take a really deep breath in and then slowly exhale. I'm going to do that again In through your nose, hold and exhale out of your mouth. Now I want you to just breathe normally and just notice the rhythm of your mouth. Now I want you to just breathe normally and just notice the rhythm of your breath. You don't need to change anything, just notice. There's going to be a rise and a fall, and I really want you to let your attention go to your breath and just feel that sensation of sitting, of being grounded. If your mind wanders, it's okay. Just return back to the moment. And as we sort of wrap up this little pause and this breathing moment, I want you to set a real quiet intention for yourself. It can be a word, it can be a feeling, it can be a simple reminder to just be present right now. I'm going to share mine. I choose to anchor in compassion and clarity even when the world feels uncertain. I can't control everything, but I can choose how I show up, and today I'm going to show up with steadiness and with care and with purpose. So gently wiggle your fingers and your toes and, when you're ready, open your eyes and let's get going.

Speaker 2: 4:12

Okay, I want to introduce Scott, his mission. I love it so much. It's to simplify the hardest parts of doing good so that you all and your missions can achieve their highest and best purpose. He is the CEO of Beyond Advisors, which is a social impact consulting firm that specializes in simplifying and scaling impact, with cross-sector clients spanning philanthropy, business and social enterprise. I'm going to name drop here Just a couple of current and former clients include the Clinton Foundation, the UN Foundation's Clean Cooking Alliance, the Starbucks Foundation, the Tent Foundation, the Marguerite Casey Foundation, emerson Collective, sean Penn's Corps we love them, we've had them on the podcast and Will and Jada Smith Family Foundation.

Speaker 2: 4:57

He is really here to help guide us through what we should be doing operationally to prepare and respond to this sort of tumultuous period of not just federal upheaval but global upheaval. So he's going to lead us through some core operational functions to ensure that your back of house is secure as possible and we're talking accounting, legal HR board, et cetera, et cetera and he has a ton of action steps. We're an activating community. We're going to get it in today. So, scott, I'm so glad you're hanging in the membership today. Welcome to the Impact Uprising.

Speaker 1: 5:29

Thanks, Becky. It is always an indescribable joy and delight to spend any amount of time with you. I feel like we've set some very high expectations and now what I thought was going to be a fun, simple hang has now turned into performance anxiety and imposter syndrome. So we'll all work through it together.

Speaker 2: 5:47

Yeah, I mean, I'm in a hat, so it's like we're casual today, my friend, so let's do this. But I want you to give some tone setting before we get in. As we're sort of looking at the world right now, what key lessons do you have you learned about navigating uncertainty at such a high level like what we're seeing right now?

Speaker 1: 6:06

I don't think it's a mistake that we started with a breathing exercise. I think this moment calls for it, not just this gathering today, and there have been more times lately in sessions like this, in podcasts, recordings, and I did an interview yesterday with the Chronicle of Philanthropy and the very first thing I talked about was the importance of taking a beat and taking a breath and that you know this moment is chaotic. None of these observations, by the way, are political. I think philanthropy has been turned into a political football and I think the game is going to intensify. But I'm not making political statements. I'm being responsive to the moment we're in. That is seeing different players on the field in different ways than we ever had before. That include federal government and certain actions coming there from. But I've worked on all sides of all aisles and with all manners of every political stripe possible for the most part, but none of this is political.

Speaker 1: 7:17

But everything we're seeing right now is somewhat chaotic. Some of it is by design and with intent to create disruption, upheaval, a chilling effect. We can talk about that. We will go in. I'm not afraid to touch a spicy topic. We can talk DEI. We should talk DEI. It really matters. It's very important. It was a political lightning rod before November of 2024. We were actually guiding some clients which I can unpack and explain, to not use that acronym in favor of other approaches that actually help them do the work better. So that's not an abandonment of values or selling ourselves out or retreating, et cetera, et cetera.

Speaker 1: 7:58

We can and should unpack all that, but the point is some of what we're seeing is, by design, intended to create chaos and the antidote to that is that beat, is that breath, is that moment of awareness and, to the extent possible and I realize there's a lot of privilege in saying this out loud and I don't mean it to sound that way but to refuse to participate when and where we can refuse to participate.

Speaker 1: 8:26

And I think choosing how we respond versus inadvertently reacting is a choice we can make to not participate in anyone's chaos agenda, and that applies to life and work, no matter who we are, where we live, what we do or what is or isn't happening in any political or other landscape. We have a moment. We always have the choice to take the moment. What we do or what is or isn't happening in any political or other landscape. We have a moment. We always have the choice to take the moment, take a breath, and we should, and so this is that moment, and I don't think it was an accident to start with a breathing exercise, because that really provides that moment of clarity and opportunity in that pause between the stimulus and the response.

Speaker 2: 10:14

This is why we love Scott. I mean, he's so centering and I thank you, scott, for talking in a way that is calm and reassuring and giving each of us agency in our own reactions and our own responses, and I think there's power in feeling like you can have control over this moment when things feel so out of control. So Julie's going to pull up your slides and we would love for you to kind of walk through really what your North Star is right now for social impact. And as you go along here, I'm going to encourage the membership to drop questions in the chat and I'll sort of facilitate as they're coming in, but we're going to hand the keys over to you. Drive, my friend.

Speaker 1: 10:57

Yeah, please. I love a good chat, I love an active chat. In some ways, and with all due respect to those of us listening to the podcast recording, I hope it is a challenging podcast to listen to, because I'd love for this to be responsive to the live chat that we're seeing here. As we gather into the slides, that will make it friendly for audio too. And I am speaking pretty heavily to the nonprofit sector here. There's a lot of universal applicability to this and I hope that's valuable to everybody, including myself. I appreciate the breathing exercise too, and I have to remind myself of exactly what I shared. It's always a practice right. Meditation, mindfulness, law, medicine all of these things are the practice of right. It's never the perfection of, it's always the practice of.

Speaker 1: 11:40

But I will be speaking to nonprofits and we will get granular. We'll get really specific with some really tactical tools that you can action today, put to work in practice today and throughout the rest of the year. But we will start sort of high level, and that is. You know that I love these quotes that are not mine. I get them from the same gurus other people follow. But but it is true that vision drives mission and where focus goes, energy flows, and when we choose what we focus on, we choose where our energy is being directed. And so to me it's critically important right now, especially in the nonprofit space, to stay close to that guiding vision. And for every nonprofit, for every 501c3, and for other mission-driven organizations, your charitable purpose is, or your vision for impact is your North Star and, specifically in the nonprofit space, our actual duties and obligations. Of what we'll talk about today, what we'll get really granular about your board, your team, how we show up every day, what we focus on, has to be in service of that charitable purpose. So, at a time when it's super, super easy to get pulled off track, pulled off course, distracted, confused, overwhelmed, scared, reactive, take that breath and recenter around that vision. And for the 501c3s in the room, that charitable purpose should be your guide first, last and always, even when it's not a tumultuous time, but especially when it is so, clarify that vision. It also happens to have a force multiplier effect for your biggest and best stakeholders your team, your board, your funders, your donors, your program partners, past, present and future. And so that is why this matters Having you know, anybody who's ever done facilitated dialogue knows you, put it up on the whiteboard. You put that vision, that focus on the whiteboard and we direct our energy there. When we get pulled off of it, when we get sidetracked, when we get anxious or upset about a side conversation, we come back to that top of the whiteboard. And so keep that charitable purpose front and center with your team and with your board and your hearts and your minds. When you get distracted, when you're taking that breath, come back to that center point. It'll also help us all stay courageous and curious.

Speaker 1: 13:51

Right, I had this conversation yesterday with the reporter. It was the very end of the call and we were talking about the challenges facing philanthropy. And there are many. They are myriad. They are really fear-inducing in some ways. I said you know, there's a great.

Speaker 1: 14:08

Einstein has three rules of work, and one of them is in the middle of difficulty lies opportunity. And I made the point to him that while there are organizations sort of having sincerely held differences of opinion, perhaps some disagreements and maybe even some fights, they're spilling into public. They're showing up on LinkedIn Is 5% enough? Is 6% enough? Is 7% enough? Where should big foundations be setting their floors? Et cetera, et cetera. By the way, you will never actually receive 100% consensus on those issues, so I'm not sure fighting about them at this moment is productive.

Speaker 1: 14:45

But I said, you know, what some organizations are doing right now is they're having internal brainstorming sessions around what this moment makes possible.

Speaker 1: 14:52

How can we do things differently?

Speaker 1: 14:56

What are we not thinking of or seeing in this moment? That is an opportunity for us and I was like that is such a fun space to be in during a time that doesn't quite feel fun, and there are organizations having those conversations in really meaningful ways and I'm very fortunate to be a part of some of them and it's a really awesome place to be and it's available to everybody. You'm very fortunate to be a part of some of them and it's a really awesome place to be and it's available to everybody. You don't have to be a major foundation talking about whether you're going to deploy 6% this year as your floor or 7% as your floor, whether you're going to convert to becoming a spend down foundation or some other approach. You can do this in any organization and say, well, what is this moment gifting us? And so that's what this slide is about. Use that North Star, let it pull you forward, bring your head into that curious and courageous headspace and look at this as an opportunity. So that's what this sort of priming slide is all about.

Speaker 2: 15:48

Scott, I'm going to give you a question that we have in the chat from the incomparable Beth Saunders and she says curious to hear your thoughts on the difference between a vision for self, like our org, and the vision which is the change Like, as an example, as it relates to the question where do you want to be at this time next year. I know you're going to like that question.

Speaker 1: 16:07

Yeah, look, this stuff works right and it works because it works for us and in life and in work. So you know all of us have. You know we're all evolving on our own journeys, right? So if the question is really about that, you know yourself and like where you want to be this time next year versus where your organization may be, you know that answer for every single one of us is going to be as individual and unique as our fingerprints, but I would strongly encourage the exercise for both and also when you're doing it for your individual self, as I think all of us do all the time. Usually I do it out on a run or in the shower or something like that is where is this all taking me? What do I do next? What do I really want to be when I grow up, which is a question I keep asking myself?

Speaker 2: 16:51

And my mother still doesn't know what I do either.

Speaker 1: 16:53

Scott just so you know, she still cannot dictate what I do for a living. So, yes, get it. My five siblings all older I am the youngest of six all still think I'm trying to be an astronaut. They're not wrong. I went to space camp four times as a kid and I'm still working on it. I'm just going a really long way to get there.

Speaker 1: 17:08

Think of it when you do it for yourself individually, both in the context of work and outside of it. Um, it's, it's. You know two different answers. Um, I, I'm playing with that right now as I have a few different career, career trains on three different tracks at least. So, great question. And and it definitely applies to to self, the org and and how both are evolving and sometimes we evolve out of them. Um, when I left the Clinton Foundation, which is now a decade ago, I've been out as long as I've been in officially as of, I think, this month. So that was a tough, tough turn to make at a time where I didn't know what the future would hold and I knew I wasn't going to stay there. So, and I, you know, I'm still evolving, though it's funny, the longer I'm out, the closer I stay. So I'm still doing work with them, but exciting work too, and if you're not on their email list, you should be, because they sent out an email this morning about the future and their plans, which is very exciting. So I hope that helps on the question, beth. And, by the way, this next slide actually works great with it, because it's about standing out and scaling what works.

Speaker 1: 18:13

I'm going to do a little bit more reading than I would typically do, just for those listening to the podcast. But what is your superpower? What is uniquely yours to give? What do you do better than anyone else in the world? And for anybody else who fancies themselves a service provider or who knows that it's about the work and it's not about us individually, I'm going to ask you to shed the modesty and the humility for a second and imagine yourself as a superhero and bringing some unique skill to the space, because every one of us is unique, like our fingerprints, and we do actually bring a superpower to it. I found this to be a very challenging exercise when it was presented to me back, when I did it the first time, where somebody said what is uniquely yours to give? What do you bring to the space better than anyone? And I resisted answering that question until I landed at my answer. So if you're feeling the same way, it's okay, and I won't do the exercise that brought it out in me, but it is a fun story for another time, or if we have time later.

Speaker 1: 19:15

But do it both for yourself and do it for your organization, because you have to stand out right now. There is so much noise and there is so much. I mean, becky, we did this, we did a podcast last year and we talked about you know the need. You know there's a lot of conversation. There always has been, but it's even more intense right now. How do you stand out in a crowded space? Should nonprofits act like businesses? Should we be out there marketing ourselves? Do we sell, et cetera? Yeah, it's all the same. The recipe's always the same. Whether it's private sector or philanthropic and nonprofits, it's all the same.

Speaker 1: 19:48

You have to be able to articulate your highest and best purpose, your competitive advantage, how you uniquely do what you do, because you are in a crowded marketplace. If you are seeking funding, in particular, you are reliant on funders you have to be able to pitch your competitive advantage in under 30 seconds and then let the curiosity pull people into a longer conversation, but it is more important than ever before, and I experienced this on my own, in insecure ways. I serve on the board of a couple of organizations that are reliant on funders and funding and big campaigns and the like new funders at a time when those funders whether they have a relationship in history with them or don't are being bombarded with pitches that are as consequential as quote unquote saving democracy, saving civil society, ensuring the survival of a sector or an industry. Those are very compelling pitches and this is a very consequential time. So if you are a soccer-focused organization, how are you bringing your pitch to that game Pun intended, by the way, and totally achieved and unexpectedly but awesomely tied in with the lasso theme, of which I am an unapologetic fan, bringing your pitch to the pitch, to pitch your pitch while pitching against other pitches on the same pitch could be a real rhymes with pitch.

Speaker 1: 21:26

You are so good, it's a challenge, but how do you?

Speaker 1: 21:28

Yeah, season four of Lasso is coming, I cannot wait, but how do you do that? How do you stand out? I mean, you really are entering rooms and environments and ecosystems where people are saying you need to fund us today because it matters that we succeed more than ever, and if your organization doesn't compete at that same level, you have to stand out in a way like you never have before. The funding's still there, you're gonna get it. It's just a more crowded, more intense marketplace, and so it's okay to adopt that mindset in a positive way, that we're going to bring our best.

Speaker 1: 21:59

But you have to be able to name your superpower and what is uniquely yours to give, and if you can tell your story right, your origin story matters so much and your story that gave rise to your charitable purpose and your social impact work. That's going to anchor you, not just in pulling you forward, but in the solid ground of where you uniquely stand on your own two feet organizationally, and how and why your work matters now more than ever including soccer, by the way. It really does. I mean, it really does matter to the kids and families who are served by those types of organizations. That really does matter now more than ever in this chaotic upheaval of 2025. And that can be made into a compelling pitch and you should use it.

Speaker 1: 22:41

If you have partnerships and hopefully you do, and most of you do and many of us do in ways we may overlook. If you have a cross-sector partnership, if you can show how you work together with other organizations, or how you can in this time to leverage your impact even better. And if you're not exploring that, if you haven't explored in the past, but you see a path to do so in the future, now's a really wonderful time to do that, because others are looking for partnerships like they never had before and for ways of amplifying each other's impact. One of my favorite quotes you can't help someone uphill without getting closer to the top yourself, and so partner with someone else to bring them up. Ask them to do the same. We all want to help. That's why we're in this space, and people want to help each other out in this time. So look for the partnerships in unique ways at this time. That will help get you there.

Speaker 2: 23:29

And I'm going to jump in here real quick because, as you're talking about narrative and owning your story, I mean that is one of we Are For Good's 2025 trends. This year is owning your own narrative, and I think you know Dr Tim Lampkin, who is just so fantastic. He's founder and CEO of Higher Purpose Co out in Mississippi is such a brilliant case study on this. It's episode 586. I'm going to drop it in the chat for this group and I just think the conversation is so timely and jives with what you're saying, scott, so keep going.

Speaker 1: 24:00

I love it. No, it's so important and you can make a strong argument for any sector right now that, like in the middle of this tumult and upheaval and changes about the role of government and you know whether we're looking to the federal government or even state governments to be the standard bearers of doing good and making the world a better place or not hey, that's what makes this sector that we're all in and that we serve whether that's philanthropy in the nonprofit space or social impact writ large across sectors even more important than ever before. And that's a compelling part of your pitch. Hey, in these tumultuous times, our work matters. The work we've been doing, the work we are doing, the work we plan to do matters more than ever because people aren't looking here or looking there for that kind of leadership, or they're not finding it there, or we have this deluge of talent coming from, you know, professional public service and government into the private sector or into the nonprofit sector, the philanthropic sector in the private sector, for social impact. And we have these people who have incredible training and experience at a high level, you know, flooding the market with their talent. That's a silver lining of this space, and so knowing when, where and how you can engage. That is really, really important. And a big, quick yes and a best comment about you know what is uniquely yours to give, because there's lots of people who do work that's kind of like ours. But what do we do uniquely well or uniquely different? Because that's what helps you stand out in that crowded marketplace.

Speaker 1: 25:21

Okay, so that was a little bit of the exciting rah-rah stuff. Now I want to get granular and tactical about things I know, work that I've seen and I've been so fortunate as Becky noted to work with high performers. There's nothing special about me other than the fact that I got lucky. I got. I'm not the smartest lawyer in the world. I'm not the smartest worker in philanthropy in the world by any stretch I'm no smarter than anyone else but I did get lucky to sit in a couple of interesting seats and see some pattern recognition and repetition over time that I know works. So now we're going to pivot from the feel good rah rah okay, great, dude, now tell me what does this actually look like into what you can actually do today that I know works. And when I see organizations struggling, it is very common that these things we're about to dive into don't work or aren't working or aren't fine-tuned or aren't working in their entirety, and I can assure you that no organization will achieve their highest and best purpose without these things working. So remember again taking that beat of the high level sort of table setting here is that we all love structure. We like a simple recipe we can follow that is delicious. So, in this chaotic world and tumultuous time, structure will create calm for you, your vision, your mission, your charitable purpose, your vision, your mission, your charitable purpose, your team, your board, et cetera and that's what we're going to talk about is your board and your team, the humans, the human resources we all use. Until the robots take over fully, it's still going to be us humans running these organizations and doing the work, and so we're going to talk about what we can do throughout a calendar year, because what gets scheduled gets done Another one of my very most favorite quotes that, when put to work regularly, has a huge impact what gets scheduled gets done.

Speaker 1: 27:07

Here's something that's not in the slide deck but is one of my favorites. I use it all the time in other contexts. I don't think I've shared this one with Becky and this community Turn your shoulds into musts. Anybody else heard that before? Type yes in the comments. If you have, it's not mine, it's not an original.

Speaker 1: 27:29

Turn your shoulds into musts this one gets fun really quick. I should go to the gym. I should eat healthier. I should go for a walk. I should do this. I should do that. I should schedule this. I should go to the gym. I should eat healthier. I should go for a walk. I should do this. I should do that. I should schedule this. I should schedule that.

Speaker 1: 27:42

Sooner or later, you find that you just should all over yourselves, don't should all over yourselves. Turn your shoulds into musts. Yes, stop shoulding Beth, it's Tony Robbins. It's the credit we're due to Tony Robbins. That's from him, but it's to all of us, and I think he'd be very happy if we, if we, if we shared that.

Speaker 1: 28:02

Turn your shoulds into musts. Turn your get have tos into get tos. That's another one. You're ha, I have to send out invoices. I have to send out this. I have to do that. No, you get to, cause it means you've got clients. It means somebody emailed you with an idea that you have to email back. You don't have to, you get to. So turn shoulds into musts, turn have tos into get tos, because what gets scheduled gets done, and that's a great way of turning a should into a must. Put it on a calendar. Here's a couple things you can do now that will have an outsized impact on your work for meetings Annual review process, which is broken into two categories for our purposes today year-end review and mid-year check-ins.

Speaker 1: 28:42

Ooh, I just triggered the balloons on my computer. I love that. I don't always know how I do that, but it works great. The board meetings and team check-ins are two of the simplest and most important ways to ensure success and a strong team Period Hard stop, especially in nonprofits.

Speaker 1: 29:03

So do yourself a favor and write down on your action plan schedule quarterly board meetings. I hope you've already had your first. We're doing this at the end of Q1 in late March. Hopefully you've already had one, and if you did, high five, and hopefully your next one is scheduled. If you didn't, the next best time is now. So go ahead and schedule it. Three is still better than two or one or none. You're obligated to have one board meeting a year so you can check that box on your 990 if you are a nonprofit. It's also good, by the way, for private sector Most private sector boards also meet quarterly.

Speaker 1: 29:38

Some do 12 a year, some do a couple a year, but quarterly is great. It's a good cadence. So that's at the board and we're gonna talk more in a second about why that matters so much. And I'd love to hear your thoughts about your board, what's working well, what's not, et cetera, if you're doing those meetings. But it also works great for. So we'll get to that after we talk about board. But your staff year-end review, your team year-end review, but also mid-year and mid-year is right around the corner. If you're listening to this live or in close proximity to the recording Mid-year check-ins in June. There's a magic to those we'll talk about.

Speaker 1: 30:09

But let's first talk about your board. Remember, the buck stops with your board for a 501c3 period hard stop there board for a 501c3, period hard stop. There are no shareholders. Nobody owns a nonprofit. We kind of forget that. But it's so important to know why is so much at the board level? It's because the board ultimately has those actual legal duties to guide your nonprofit. They have fiduciary duties, duties of care and loyalty. They have to lead the organization forward. So that's why those board meetings are so important. If you don't feel that way about your board. You should, and we should write that down as something we want to focus on.

Speaker 1: 30:42

Joan Gary, who I know is a friend of this community and mine as well, talks about the wings of the plane. Others talk about wings of the plane. Donald Miller talks about wings of the plane, your staff and board. Who should lead? Is the staff leading the board? Does the board lead the staff? No, they're two wings of the same plane. The COO and the board chair should be the pilot and the co-pilot. They can switch seats. It doesn't really matter who's in which seat, and some organizations one is more the pilot and the other one's more the co pilot, and that's okay. That's completely normal. We don't have to dive down that rabbit hole.

Speaker 1: 31:16

But think of it that way. If you don't have the most dynamic and engaged, frequently meeting, loving, caring, kind, super informed board, then this one should really be top of your list. But schedule those four meetings a year, because what gets scheduled gets done, and do it now. Set the tone, set the agenda. I will happily gift everybody here the template agenda I deploy with some of the highest performing boards in the world. I've seen them get fancy. I've seen them create their own. I've seen them tell me why theirs has to be bespoke, and that's cool, that is super cool. Have at it, have fun. But if you don't have a template agenda to guide your meetings the same way every time, I'm super happy to gift you with the one that I find works most of the time.

Speaker 1: 31:59

Remember, we love structure, we love clarity, we love a simple recipe that's delicious, and so will your board. You don't have to get fancy, you don't have to switch it up, you don't have to change things. Predictability and reliability is great. Think about going to the gym. If you go to the gym one time and do all the exercises, do you get healthy, strong or fit? No, you do not. You get injured and sore and never want to go back again. But if you just do a couple of the exercises the same way every time for a few minutes over time, you will get healthier, stronger and more fit guaranteed, and then you can add on more.

Speaker 1: 32:42

Start simple. Give yourself the gift of starting simple. Super happy to help anybody who doesn't have the board of their dreams or the board meetings of their board members' dreams, with a simple agenda you can use every single time and, yes, you can say NA, not applicable this meeting or no report, that's totally fine. But you will then show your board. We are going to have clarity and structure for every meeting and that lets everybody take that same beautiful breath and center around a predictable and reliable framework and you can tweak it from there. But if you don't have one to start with, you should so schedule the meetings, schedule them quarterly, provide the agenda 30 days in advance, which means you're working on it 60 days in advance. The truth is, most of our high performing clients are working on their next agenda almost immediately after they finish the last board meeting.

Speaker 1: 33:31

And I just did this last Friday with a team that met on Friday with their board and today on the call, right before I joined this one, we were working on what came out of it and what will go into the next one, and it's beautiful the way it builds that way. But use that board time. It is so valuable, so important. And remember your board is setting the vision and the trajectory to pull you forward, or at least they should be. Weak boards will weaken impact. Strong boards will scale your impact, so that's why it is so important and matters so much.

Speaker 2: 34:00

Scott, we would love to get that template. We will drop it in the show notes and definitely share it with this membership. I see a really good question in here from Dairis Sorry, I said your name incorrectly, dairis Sorry but she says can you share more about how board meetings and schedules relate to budgeting and career advancement for team members? You want to take that one on.

Speaker 1: 34:20

Budgeting and career advancement for team members. I think those are two separate things. Correct me in the chat if I'm wrong, but I think those are two separate things. First of all, the annual budget should be done sort of like middle of the year, third quarter, fourth quarter board meeting for the next year, the year through, third quarter, fourth quarter board meeting for the next year. That's my general, the way I view the world, and sort of this recipe and framework, what I call the beyond simple approach, which is, hey, four meetings a year, and I can walk through it's probably better for another time because I'll go deep on them what those four quarterly meetings sort of should focus on. But the budget should be there in that November, the end of Q3 or beginning of Q4 board meeting. Ideally it's coming up, a draft is done for that Q3 board meeting and is approved in the Q4 board meeting.

Speaker 1: 35:04

The Q4 board meeting is too late to start the conversation. That's usually an indicator that our budgeting process could be pulled forward and shared between two different meetings in a year. So I'd probably be elevating the draft budget in Q3 for the Q3 board meeting and then, if you have a committee and you don't have to, you do not have to have any committees of your board unless it's required by law. Many boards are very, very small and are often comprised of the founders and the people running the organization. So to make a committee out of those people is a little redundant and that's okay. If that's you, that's normal. But if you are bigger and do have a bigger board and do have committees and hopefully have a finance and audit or a finance or audit committee, depending on your size, that finance committee or that operation and function should be there in the Q3 focus with a Q4 board review and final approval of that budget. And then the second part of that was the team.

Speaker 2: 35:59

Claire refresh my memory on the second part of that budget and then the second part of that was the team. Claire refresh my memory. On the second part of that question, yes, it was. How can board meetings and schedules relate to career advancement for team members?

Speaker 1: 36:06

Yeah, well that we're going to get in the team member thing next so I can put a pin on it for a pin in that one yeah because, because that is also part of, by the way, the budgeting and the advancement and, hopefully, promotions and organizational growth and team growth and development, et cetera, et cetera. So we'll get there in just a second. But then those board the staffing piece and, including raises and title changes and things like that, will come into that Q3, q4. And then that bleeds straight into the Q1, which is super fun and awesome. So, on the board front, have those four board meetings. The budget should be part of Q3, q4. If it's not, make it part of yours and include the staff piece, which is exactly where we're going next.

Speaker 1: 36:43

So the thing we didn't talk about yet but I'm going to share here real quick for ease of reference, is that I invite everybody to lean into an acronym that I love when I've had to answer the question about, like simplify, a nonprofit.

Speaker 1: 36:56

For me I use the acronym BOP, b-o-p-p, and I invite everybody to become a BOPtimist because I believe every single one of the nation's 1.6 or 1.8 million nonprofits have four things in common Board, operations, programs, partnerships. That's it, that's everything. I have yet to meet one where something they're dealing with, struggling with or achieving greatly doesn't fall into those four categories their board, their operations, their programs or their partnerships. We just talked a little bit about board and I love doing board stuff. We can break that out another time and go deep, deep, deep there. Operations is equally deep and it's really big. Operations is HR, finance, accounting, legal tech, it, communications, marketing, et cetera, et cetera. Programs are what we do to make the world a better place and partnerships are the people with whom we do it. That's it, that's the bop and a quick fly through.

Speaker 2: 37:48

Love that.

Speaker 1: 37:49

We talk about board. Now let's talk about what I think is the most important part of operations. Your team HR, call it whatever you like. Talent management People your team HR, call it whatever you like. Talent management people, operations, hr whatever the humans that make the work possible.

Speaker 1: 38:06

Right now, especially in this tumultuous time and this chaos of 2025, our people want to be reassured. We want to reassure them. We're all people. We want to be reassured. If you're the CEO, you want to be reassured by. We want to reassure them. We're all people. We want to be reassured. If you're the CEO, you want to be reassured by your board. If you're a director of development, you want to be reassured by your CEO and your board and your team. We all want to be reassured that we're in a safe place doing good work and that we're secure. The very best way to do that is to check in. Ideally, we're all doing that every day. It feels symbiotic. We're happy all the time, but in reality, that's not often the case for all of us, at the very least, here's your base, here's what we grow with Mid-year check-ins in June and year-end reviews starting in October.

Speaker 1: 38:52

Easy peasy, lemon squeezy. October 1st or whatever the first business day of October is should be the day start year-end review process. June 1, or thereabouts should be start mid-year touch base. So mid-year touch base should be easy, breezy, lemon squeezy. Should be light. They don't have to be full reviews. They don't have to be involve paper unless it's necessary. It can just be a check-in between team leader and team member what's working, what's not, how can we better support you? That's it. Open the door, people will walk through it. Open the door, people will walk through it. All of us will walk through those doors. We'll talk about our greatest hopes, our greatest achievements. Let me tell you what I'm doing Amazing. We'll talk about our biggest gripes and complaints or needs. But just open the door. That's the mid-year touch base. Doing it is so much better than not doing it, and asking one, two or three of these questions is the simplest way to get the conversation going.

Speaker 1: 39:57

Year-end review actually use the tool and the process Tool. And process Tool should start with the position description as essential functions and should be a year-end self-assessment tool. Both of these things exist and I'm very happy to provide the templates I recommend and use to our clients and or to this group. We'll take them. Yep, all yours, no problem. I didn't create them, I curated them, so I'm super happy to share them. Use the self-assessment.

Speaker 1: 40:15

Why is that magical, scott? Because if somebody starts with a self-assessment, it means the work starts with the team member. And that's magical for a couple really interesting drill down reasons. One they get to shine. They get to start in a positive frame of mind and tell you what they did awesome, and they're going to be the ones have to tell you the things that they didn't do as awesome on, or that maybe we want to focus on more next year, that we felt we could have used some more support with, or that we felt the chaos of the year pulled us off of. So we're starting with the self-assessment and that's amazing because I get to lead with what I think is positive and what I want my supervisor to know.

Speaker 1: 40:48

We would all do that, we would all prefer to start that way, and if you're the supervisor, it makes your life easy. You get something from the team member. You don't have to start the process, you don't have to sit down and do it fresh for everybody. You get theirs to respond to and be like I agree with that. Oh, I actually think they did better than they ranked themselves. On that one I'm going to give them higher. I can't wait to talk about that. They're too hard on themselves, they're too modest, they're too humble. I can't wait to do that. You know what? This one? They thought they did better than I thought they did. That's going to be a great spot for us to have that conversation. And why didn't we address the elephant in the room about the big miss, the big swing and the miss on this thing, whatever, to help you do that.

Speaker 1: 41:30

So the year-end review process is full of all kinds of magic, but if you started in December, you started way too late. But if you're not doing it at all, december's great. What's better is October 1st, because that's before the year-end budget, that's before salary increases, that's before title changes, that's before the conversations where someone might say, hey, it's been wonderful, but I'm going to be leaving, I'm looking for a new gig. Or hey, I'm really interested in a promotion. Or hey, I'm interested in that lateral move in the organization, I'd like to take on more responsibility, I'd like a different title, et cetera.

Speaker 1: 42:00

That October time gives you time and space to manage that, including any potential budget implications. So start, give future you the gift of scheduling something for October 1st and start with that individual self-assessment. Ask your team members to fill it out and get it to you in less than two weeks. People will always let the task expand to the time you give them. I say five days, but I'm a tough grader, so maybe two full business weeks, that's 10 business days. Any of us can do it. It doesn't take that long to get done. The clarity you give people in this process is kindness for them, and so asking them to self-assess and then being responsive to how they did that for better and or for worse or somewhere in the middle, is great.

Speaker 1: 42:43

And then, hopefully this is my last bit on the HR front. This is a lot packed into one slide and this is a lot packed in the last bullet point of the slide is you should have all of your policies, procedures and practices living and working every day, 24, 7, 365, just like your computer's hard drive does. It's great to have a handbook and code of conduct. It's better when it works and people know where it is, what it includes, when they can go to it, how it works, what the financial practices are, what your legal obligations are, how you do compliance, et cetera, et cetera. Hopefully, you're doing those trainings throughout the year. So this is my pitch for that.

Speaker 1: 43:16

We're not really focusing heavily on that one, but I'm a nerd for HR trainings. I love them. You should do them at least once a year. You can pack them all into one. You could separate them if your state requires you to separate anti-harassment training, et cetera, et cetera. Conflict of interest training, new policies in the new year it's fine to spread them out, do them in the way that works best for you, but make sure your policies, procedures and practices are alive and well in your organization. If they sit in a file folder that nobody ever looks at, reviews or understands they are no good to you. It's not even worth having them. You're obligated to have them, but if they don't work, they don't work work.

Speaker 2: 43:48

Okay, before we move on to the next piece, we got some really interesting questions in here. Kate Fitzwater has a question around the BOP and she says at what point might communication or narrative move from operations to programs or partnerships, and is this a shift we should be encouraging, based on your earlier comments about communicating and owning your highest and best purpose?

Speaker 1: 44:09

Often and seamlessly, and sort of depending on audience. If I've heard the question so often, seamlessly and depending on audience and context it may shift. And I'll give you an example. In that board meeting last week with the client, they really surfaced for their board the advancements they've made on operations across the organization. Here's what we're doing on finance, on legal, on HR, on marketing and comms, on data. They are very tech and science-heavy organizations so there's a lot on engineering, a lot on science, et cetera, and their board would not know all the things they've done. So they really elevated that for awareness, specifically in this last board meeting. That was really important. They wanted them to know.

Speaker 1: 44:55

Now, of course, the board's going to assume your operations are good. That's the J-O-B, that's what we're supposed to be doing every day. I expect HR to be HR-ing awesomely. I expect everybody else to be doing the things they do awesomely. But it is good for them to know what you've been doing, the progress you've been making, because it gives them that same clarity and understanding that, a you know it's important. B you're sharing it with them. C they don't have to ask any questions because you just answered them proactively. That's really awesome Again, that proactive, positive mindset, elevating the things we can touch, we can control, etc. So important and helpful.

Speaker 1: 45:26

Your external stakeholders, again, are going to be assuming you do that. Well, they're going to be more interested in that program piece, right, that partnerships piece, what you're doing to move the needle on the issues your organization or your social impact work addresses. That's going to be a bit more about programs and partnerships. You have internal facing communications about the BOP and you have external communications about it. And again, you know you're not really going to talk a lot externally about your board unless there's something noteworthy there, right? Maybe a new board member joined, or somebody really fantastic in your sector with subject matter expertise, or maybe Matt Damon finally said yes, or Oprah or Mackenzie Bezos, or whoever it is that's on your wishlist, finally joined the board.

Speaker 1: 46:06

Of course you're going to want to use that to your advantage externally, but most of the time people aren't paying attention to your board unless they're going to see who's on it on your website. So there'll be less about that. The more retail aspects of this are the public facing, linkedin, social media, things like that Say here's what we do, how we do it, with whom we're doing it and some results that are really amazing. So, but internally your board may be far more interested operational pieces. So again, I hope that answers the question, but it depends a little bit on context. But it should work seamlessly. If you really get the bop down and working beautifully, you can talk about any time to anyone you know, in any context or any situation.

Speaker 2: 46:42

Okay, I feel like we're coming down into the tail end of this, but I know you've got a bonus guidance for these 2025 headwinds and I know we're going to want to talk about DEI and all of the other things, so we are ready. Scott, dive in.

Speaker 1: 46:56

Yeah, make proactive changes, not reactive changes. We've talked about that from the beginning, so I won't belabor that point. But review your policies now, not when it's necessary. If it's necessary, it's probably too late. So, again, lean into that. It's still Q1, going into Q2.

Speaker 1: 47:09

It's a wonderful time to be revisiting and refreshing policies, practices and procedures that support your org. This is just a vote for that. That's the nerdy work. There's a great Disney quote that I love from the Disney Institute that says it's not the magic that makes it work, it's the way we work that makes it magic. I'll say that one more time it's not the magic that makes it work, it's the way we work that makes it magic. Your we work that makes it magic. Your policies, procedures and practices that keep your organization strong and give everybody that common foundation. Again, whether that's your handbook, your code, your PDs, your mid-year process, your year-end process, your board meetings, that's the stuff you want to be reviewing Handbooks, codes of conduct for not just your staff but also your board, conflicts of interest, et cetera, et cetera. If somebody's going to attack your organization, they can't get you on the big things. They'll get you on the little things. So make sure the little things because they are big, things are strong. So that's that first bullet there. Secondly, dei. I mean say it, say it out loud, it's okay, we can touch spicy things, just don't touch your eyes. Afterwards we can say DEI, dei.

Speaker 1: 48:15

Work is still legal. You are allowed to do it if you're a federal contractor. That's a different story. You have to be more careful. But the work was done before we had the acronym. The great melting pot, the great american experiment, cared about diversity and equity and inclusion long before there was an acronym. It's going to care about it long after the acronym is used or not. Concede the acronym If you have to continue the work, nobody can stop you. Concede the acronym. If you have to continue the work, nobody can stop you. So reaffirm your commitments, be clear about it. You're not selling your soul, you're not selling out. You're living to fight another day and to continue the work without becoming a target. Some organizations can afford to fight. They can, they should, they will. That's great. They provide an example and cover. But many organizations could not survive the first complaint filed against them. And if that's the case, you have to make necessary choices to minimize your risk. So reaffirm your commitment to equity, especially internally and with key state external stakeholders. But be strategic. Get legal advice if and when you can, and there's more and more showing up online for free. Use those free resources. Multiple nonprofit industry resources are out there and are creating wonderful resources people can log into and onto and use Reframe. Don't retreat Reframe. Don't retreat. Lead with your values. Lead with values-driven language. Modify what you have to. Be courageous, but don't be reckless. If you know you're going to be a target, if you double down on an acronym or language and you're a federal contractor or supported by one or supporting one, then you know that targets there and it's a choice to make. But there's a way around it, which is to revise now and not to give into the chilling effect. Keep doing the work. I'm not recommending we abandon our values or principles or mission or vision, just suggesting we do what's necessary to keep doing the work without becoming a target. There's no trophy for becoming a target unless you have those $8 billion in the bank to fight it. Seek strength in numbers. Ask for help. The silver lining of this is there's so many people trying to help right now, so do what you can. A lot of this is easier said than done, I recognize, but I hope it's reaffirming and reassuring. Seek out those partners and new partners in different ways. Seek new funding in new and different ways. There's lots of foundations exploring that creative space to be able to get things out, whether that's through increased grant making, discretionary grant making, program-related investments, mission-related investments, giving through DAFs, et cetera, et cetera. Stay true to your core investments, giving through DAFs, et cetera, et cetera. Stay true to your core. Don't give up who you are and what you do uniquely well for a shiny object or a new path that may take you off your core. It's great to pursue new opportunities. Be creative and innovative. Obviously, I'm a fan of that, but double down on what you do well and the funders will be there for you. They are actively trying to find ways to support. They really are. Reframe, don't retreat. Use the language that you can. This is all evolving right. None of all of our crystal balls are broken. I wish mine was working, but we are seeing clarity come out about what language is and isn't subject to scrutiny and we know, you know, how we need to change it. I, you know you teased earlierased earlier. I was just thinking about this today. I want to replace the acronym, if I have to, from DEI to WKC, and I want to change it to Welcoming, kind and Caring, and I're going to be welcoming of everyone with unique and diverse backgrounds. We're going to be kind to everybody based on their various needs, and we're going to be caring about what we can do to support. You know everybody involved and just like, let's just change it up, nobody can stop you from doing this work. Humans have always cared about other humans. It's how we survive. America has always cared, or has always had at the heart of it, that we are a melting pot. Bring me your tired, your humble, etc. Etc. Etc. Keep doing the work, stay a step ahead by being more creative and innovative, and keep pivoting our policies and our practices as necessary to stay compliant out of the spotlight of being a target, I should say and do what's necessary to keep doing the work well.

Speaker 2: 52:44

Scott, put a bow on it. Give us your one good thing for today. How would you summate all of this into a one good thing?

Speaker 1: 52:53

We are the people we've been waiting for. I mean, that's not my phrase, right, that's a popular one Like this is the work. And if you need a mantra for it, I'll give you one of my favorite running mantras that I got from a running coach which was so great about running it was right at the start of a half marathon and I'd followed this guy's program and everything else, but this was a net new for this one half marathon. He said. My mantra is I can do this, I'm doing this, I've done this because it's true, for each step of the run, you've just done the step that you did, you're doing the step you're doing now and you're going to do the next one.

Speaker 1: 53:33

I can do this, I'm doing this, I've done this. And I honest to God, I don't you know, of all the things you could hear at the start of a race, that one just stuck for me, that one, and I've used it ever since and I'm still using it now. I can do this, I'm doing this, I've done this. It's also a mindfulness exercise, right, I can do this, I'm doing this, I've done this. We're the people, we're the community. This is the work, this is the moment. We didn't expect it or invite it, or anticipate it or necessarily want it. But here we are, we can do this, we're doing this, we've done this.