580. Unleashing the Power of Idealism: A Conversation with Ami Dar, Idealist

Meet Ami. He’s an idealist committed to building a more connected, idealistic, and compassionate world🌍 He’s the founder and executive director of Idealist.org, which supports over 150,000 organizations and more than 1 million registered users, with 1.4 million monthly visitors💻 Tune in for a moving conversation about the power of grassroots movements, empowering young people, and seeing the shared humanity in all people. 

💡 Learn

• The story + mission of Idealist
• Tips for keeping our idealism alive and thriving
• Why a global movement of idealists is more important than ever

Today’s Guest
Ami Dar, Founder and Executive Director, Idealist

Episode Highlights 

• Ami’s story and journey to where he is today (4:20)
• The vision for and story of Idealist.org (10:50)
• Staying connected to idealism (15:10)
• Vision for a global coalition of idealists (20:05)
• Engaging young people in idealism (27:50)
• A powerful moment of philanthropy in Ami’s life (33:30)
• Ami’s One Good Thing: If your dream or idea is a bad one, find out as soon as possible and don't do it. (39:00)
• How to connect with Ami (44:25)

For more information + episode details visit: weareforgood.com/episode/580.

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Chapters

• 0:53 Rise of the Impact Uprising
• 12:53 Staying Idealistic in a Divided World
• 21:45 Unleashing Idealism in Action
• 34:25 Early Injustices and Philanthropic Actions
• 45:12 Connecting With Idealist Online

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:53

Hey, I'm John.

Speaker 2: 0:54

And I'm Becky.

Speaker 1: 0:55

And this is the we Are For Good podcast.

Speaker 2: 0:58

Nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world.

Speaker 1: 1:07

We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an impact uprising.

Speaker 2: 1:16

So welcome to the good community. We're nonprofit professionals, philanthropists, world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.

Speaker 1: 1:26

So let's get started, Becky. Oh my gosh, we're like the rabid fans today, right?

Speaker 2: 1:32

We are the largest rabid fans of this person. This is like having Beyonce on the podcast for us today, right now.

Speaker 1: 1:39

She looks better. The king is in the house. I guess We'll revise that. But I mean, what an honor to be in the presence of Ami Dar. If you don't know him, if you don't follow him, stop what you're doing, don't listen to this podcast any longer. Go find and follow his work on LinkedIn and just pour into this idealism movement that he put a flag on the ground so many years ago and that he is so kind, so thoughtful, so intentional with how he shows up in the world that he has been a beacon to us personally, but he's also a beacon to our sector of what's possible.

Speaker 1: 2:08

So I'm going to do the introduction a little bit different than what we typically do, because we ran across this kind of like storyline of Ami when we were doing research. He was named Nonprofit Pro of the Year a few years back through Nonprofit Pro, so thank you for that recognition. But our friend Nute wrote this about Ami. We thought it was just so beautiful that we wanted to share it here. Ami was conscripted into the Israel army At the age of 19,. He was stationed at the Syrian border. It was then he had a revelation the people on the other side of the border are not his enemy. Though divided by a border, there are probably people on the other side willing to share socks with him. It was because of this he imagined a world that was not divided by manufactured borders and boundaries, but a world where sock sharers would be on the same side working together to build a better tomorrow.

Speaker 1: 3:03

I'm already tearing up yeah, I mean, we read that and we feel so connected of the world. We've been called toxic optimist in our career. We're kind of this resident idealist here. We call ourselves that too, but we see the world the same way. That's the impact uprising that we describe around here of what's possible when we come together. Instead of look at what's our differences, figure out the commonality in our shared humanity. So you've been doing this for a long time.

Speaker 1: 3:25

On me, I look back at idealistorg that now supports over 150,000 organizations around the world every country around the world, more than 1 million registered users. This is an organization that's connecting people to resources, to volunteering opportunities, to nonprofit careers, to management Guys the ripple of this organization. Because Ami decided to say hey, we all have the same needs, we all have the same goals at the end of the day. So it is an honor to sit in your presence today, my friend. Thank you for saying yes to the podcast. I can't wait to hear more of your story. But, Ami, welcome to the we Are For Good podcast. Thank you so much.

Speaker 2: 3:59

Can I just say something else? That is, we were talking about this before Ami got on, but Ami came into our lives within a week of each other all three of us in different ways and so Julie had found Ami through something on idealistorg. I had read something on Reddit about Ami. I went directly to LinkedIn on September 9th you can go back and check this out. Ami and I wrote you this little message and I just thanked you for the way that you look at the world and the beauty that you put into it, and we had a dialogue like about two months ago. And on the same week, john read something and all three of us said we got to get this person on and we'd all had intersections. So we have this Slack channel, literally in the we Are For Good Slack called Godwink, when the universe is trying to tell us all something. Ami, we are so glad that you're here. It felt like you were being led to us. We're going to have a great conversation today.

Speaker 1: 4:59

Thank you so much for having me. Well, I mean, you know this podcast. We want to get to know the human behind the story. I've shared a little bit of the story, but you're an ultimate storyteller, my friend. Would you take us back?

Speaker 3: 5:21

I mean, take us a couple of things First. Let me, if someone first of all, thank you so much for having me here. I have, like the kindest four eyes looking at me right now like a really nice feeling.

Speaker 3: 5:25

You're so welcome. I think that you said something about you know, people across the border who would share their socks. Somebody who's never heard this before might be like why is he even talking about socks? It sounds weird. So the background to that was that I was on the border, basically serving in the army 40 years ago I'm not young anymore and I was looking across the border and I had realized that in my unit, my little platoon, there were some guys who would share their last pair of dry socks with me if I needed it, and there were others who might steal my last pair of dry socks if they needed it. So I realized I sort of very, in a very young way I was, you know, 18, 19 years old and I thought you have these like sock thieves and sock shares out there and I realized one day that across the border that same division might, might be the case probably, and so I thought you know, this fence is running the wrong way Like this makes no sense. It'd be much more sense for all the sharers to get together than this weird sort of accidental division. So that's so. It's not some like sock fetish. It's about. That was the story Everyone wondering when you introduced me. It's like you know what's the deal with socks? Well, sharing anything, basically the world of sharers. So, thinking back, I think one. So, yes, I was.

Speaker 3: 6:35

I was born in Jerusalem and then we moved when I was seven, we moved to Mexico for eight years and I sort of grew up in Mexico city and I think, sorry, when I was probably eight or something I'm not sure why or how I was like this little social justice freak. I basically I started asking my parents why, um, there are kids my age out in the streets begging when we have food at home, and I'm sure you know I have my own kids now. I'm sure that the first time I asked was very cute. And by the fourth time, like, what do you tell a kid who keeps asking, you know, why is there this obvious injustice out there? Why are these kids begging when we have food? So that was, I think, the first sort of sense of I want to do something. I'm not sure what to do as an eight-year-old. You know, what could I do by the time I was 10, I think I was dreaming of revolution, but no one wanted to follow me to the hills.

Speaker 2: 7:24

So I was like let's go. You would have been such good friends on me.

Speaker 3: 7:28

So, yeah, so I waited. So then, yeah, so you know, I grew and saw more things and I did not like school when I was a kid at all. So when I finished my compulsory service, you know three years went traveling for a while in South America in the 80s. I started meeting sort of lots of people, both local and travelers, who wanted to do something about what they were seeing around them environmental stuff, poverty, whatever. So the mid 80s, there's no web, there's no. I know it's hard to imagine a world where your mom doesn't know where you are and can't find you, like I mean, there was no, you know nothing like that no life 360 on your phone.

Speaker 3: 8:03

No, no phones right like I would. I would call my parents once a month to tell them I was alive now, and then they wouldn't know until a month later if I was alive or not. So I thought you know what can I? I was 24 and I, what can I do with my life? And I, I don't want to go to college. That's not going to happen. I just really did not like school, so I dropped out of high school when I was in 11th grade. College is not going to happen. Uh, what can I do?

Speaker 3: 8:25

And I thought there has to be a way of connecting good people around the world to each other and to ways of doing good. Uh, how I haven't defensed this idea. This was 1985. There was the beginning of fax machines and like pcs. Um, I don't know how, but there has to be a way of doing this. Uh, I'm meeting all these people. It's funny I mentioned your eyes earlier. I'm meeting all these people as I'm traveling that I can see in their eyes immediately that they're the kind of person that I would take to a you know island. If I have to spend a couple years on an island with 30 people like I would take you I know it's. You're not going to steal my food. I'm able to grow some together. So these people, there has to be a way of connecting them. And the question was how?

Speaker 3: 9:04

And I had no idea, so I went back. I went back to israel. I was, I was a waiter, I was a translator. Uh, started working for a computer company in front of mine, started a software company and he hired me to be his um international marketing manager because I could in English. That was my big asset at the time. So did that for a while, came here, started his subsidiary in the US in 92, 93. And then the web was invented and the first time I saw a website very much at the beginning it was just like green text with like a little shiny word.

Speaker 3: 9:33

Oh yeah, I remember, and I thought, oh my God, with this thing I could actually do what I've been dreaming about for years. So in a sense I was predisposed to the moment when the web came along, which is why we launched Idealist in 95. It was the same year that Craigslist and eBay and Yahoo 95, 94, 95 was the first year where you could do a search, you could connect a database to the web so you could track your FedEx number or search for something. So that led us to Idealist, led me to Idealist, and then that was that so long story. But that's your question, I guess to some degree.

Speaker 2: 10:11

It's like you were literally building the network before there was a digital network, and that's what I love so much about the Ide idealist story and ps. I'm totally as you're talking. I'm hearing the aol dial up like going, like putting in the ass jeeves like how do, how do I do impact work, you know, with people?

Speaker 3: 10:31

we're trying to get uh funding for it and it was very hard. And a friend told me you're trying to sell the idea of tv guide to people who don't know what a television is and that's essentially impossible. Right, how? What you know web directory and people like what's the web? Like what are you talking about? Well, it's this thing anyway. Forget it.

Speaker 2: 10:49

Yeah, so you just leave the meeting like whatever it's just such a cool story, and so it started out like, as this action without borders and you know, turned into idealistorg. And then I think about, like in 2000, you get this $100,000 grant that basically doubles your budget and you took off from there and as a recovering major gift officer, I'm like, oh my gosh, $100,000 gift comes in. You just feel like like you have the world in your hands, but really you were able to scale that and do something truly transcendent and beautiful and you were building digital community before people knew what digital community was, and so I'd love for you to just talk about ideal like take us to this vision for this platform and how has it evolved over time.

Speaker 3: 11:40

Yeah, well, I mean some very long stories. I'll try to keep it short. First, the name. Just I, you know, we had to name this thing somehow and I had this terrible idea, which I'm so happy that the URL was taken, taken because so I thought that a good idea for trying to do would be the word catalyst, but with an eye, so you know, a, you're catalyzing something.

Speaker 3: 12:03

But it's a list of things right with you, we're with you, yeah so thank god it was taken, because pretty bad name, but the thing stayed with me. And then, like a couple weeks later, I was walking in the street and I thought, oh my god, in english, idealist is like idealism, but it's also an idea list, and it's a list of ideas, right, an idea list, and so it's ah. So I ran back to the office and this was 96 and the URL was available, which is sort of amazing. And then I'll tell you one quick thing, because you mentioned your Godwink Is that what you called it, your thing? And then I'll tell you one quick thing, because you mentioned your Godwink.

Speaker 1: 12:37

Is that what you called it?

Speaker 3: 12:38

Slack channel. So we registered the URL on August 22nd 96. That's the date. If you look it up, you'll see that our URL is registered that date, so 15 years later or more. I am a very late bloomer and I got married for the first time 10 years ago.

Speaker 3: 12:59

And this is relevant because when I met my wife 12 years ago in Spain, she had a daughter who was 10. And so at some point her daughter's birthday came up, and it was August 22nd. So when I met my wife, I had a baby and she had a baby, and both babies were born the same day. Idealist.

Speaker 2: 13:17

You have twins my wife's daughter, who is now my daughter, and both babies were born the same day, idealist. My wife's daughter, who's now my daughter.

Speaker 3: 13:20

They were not born the same year. You know, my daughter was born in 2004. This was born in 96. But they're both August 22nd babies, which is sort of bizarre if you talk about like Godwinks.

Speaker 2: 13:30

It's almost our birthday too. Is that not weird? Weird for good. It's really close August 20th. Is that not weird? Weird for good. It's really close, august 20th, the 5th of August.

Speaker 3: 13:36

There you go, so yeah. So we launched the site at the beginning, no money, there was nothing like it. So we just created this little site on a PC, basically, and said people, come, register, you can have a presence on the web for free, create a record, create a page and start posting things gradually. Now, this is all I mean this. It took tremendous patience for five years, I think, from 96 through 2000,. Where the staff of three, an annual budget of a hundred thousand dollars for the whole organization I was, I was still working for my friend, so I was volunteering. I was in this office in New York where in one room I had these two people doing a deal list and the rest of the office was this other people. He pay my salary, bless him, and he gave us this room to work from, and so these two people had to pay them somehow and survive for five years that way, somehow, until this first hundred thousand dollar gift came in. And then, yeah, and then we sort of took off gradually from there. But it's been a very long.

Speaker 3: 14:32

Um, you know, I've met hundreds of people in the last few 20 years who have this dream of something they want to create and you get a sense very quickly. They want their dream to work out in a month or two or six months. You feel immediately that the and things usually don't happen that way. I can't stand it Like I don't understand why Rome wasn't built in a day. Right the moment that you imagine Rome, you want it built in a day, like ah. But you realize that most things in life, most good things, take time Very few. There are very few overnight successes, and so you need to be patient, or stubborn, as my mom would say about me, but you need to basically stick around.

Speaker 2: 15:11

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 15:12

I mean thanks for sharing that, because I think it's really easy, especially listening to podcasts. You hear of the highlight reel or you see the highlight reel, but taking us behind the scenes of it was community building, one relationship at a time, years at a time. That just compounds to this impact you've had today. So we'll definitely connect up. You know everybody that's listening. I hope you can go and check out all the resources. We'll link that up at the end. But I'm talking to you today. I wanted to talk about this idea of living out. I mean, you know, not just um saying we're idealist, but you try to channel this. You know I, I follow you and I think that your, your posts often, like provoke a lot of deep thinking for me personally too. But I mean, after years of leading idealist, how do you continue to stay connected to your own sense of idealism when the world feels so painful, so divided most days? You know, I don't.

Speaker 3: 16:05

I don't know that. I have a choice. In other words, I, I, um. You know, it's funny if, if I, if I look at Becky and I say, becky, you know, you've had a long life so far. I mean you, you've been around for a while, how do you continue being a woman? I mean, like, how do you do this? You know? Like you know, get up and like you know, and it's like it's just, it's just who Becky is right, this is who you are right, and I think that that in my case, it's like asking a writer are very hard.

Speaker 3: 16:36

I mean, this past year, you know, with what's happening in Israel and Gaza, I've been also much more active on social media than before. Just to keep my sanity. I began tweeting a year ago in a way that I never did before, some posts on LinkedIn here and there, and it's hard. But then what's the alternative? To become just like an angry cynic and I'd rather be dead, I mean. So in the end, you revert back to hope. I can't live any other way. I don't? It's funny. It's a really interesting question, john. I don't know how like, I don't know how to be like some snide. You know, cynic, and I mean I can be very cynical, I can tell cynical jokes, I can be cynical at moments, but to stop believing the better is possible, then what would be the point? Plus, I think, one last thing about that that's serious is that I think most of us, I think almost all of us, we know the better is possible for, I think, two really important reasons that I think most of us have seen In our lives. We have seen, I think all of us, a school get better, a street get better, a town get better, a park get better. And we're not dumb, we can extrapolate from that. Right, If one street can get better I mean New York in the last 30 years, oh my God, right. So we can extrapolate from that. Right, if one street can get better I mean new york in the last 30 years, oh my god, right. So we can, we can extrapolate, and so we can say, well, wait, if one school can get better, why can't every school get better? Right, like we could do that. And then the other thing, I think, is that most of us not all of us, but I think most of us have experienced being part of a group of people, of a team that has been sort of unleashed to do something awesome together, and we've had that experience of like doing something awesome even just for an hour, and so, again, we can extrapolate Like, if we can do that once, why can't we do awesome things all the time? So, yes, of course we can, and you see it, I think people tend to focus on bad things.

Speaker 3: 18:33

But sorry for the long answer, but I think that several years ago, when Bloomberg was mayor of New York, he had you know the guts to to to come out and say people will no longer be allowed to smoke in bars, restaurants, and I was like you're crazy, who's gonna? You know whatever? And he did it. And now, all over the world, you go to a bar or restaurant in many places and people don't smoke anymore, and it's awesome and like that changed right. So, of course, change is possible. We just need to focus on also what's good. The news tend to focus on what's bad and that takes us down, but we need to look around and like there's so much beauty, there's so much good. Anyway, enough with the preaching, but yeah, there is a lot of good out there.

Speaker 2: 19:13

I was going to say how often do we just get to sit here and talk about how revolutionary and understated kindness, civility and hope are, because it's easy to be a cynic right now. It's really easy got to take us back to, like the North Star of we Are For Good, which is an impact uprising. And it's this belief that if we can get more people involved in the act of generosity, philanthropy, helping in some way, not only is it going to benefit the person on the back end, but it benefits us y'all. Like there are literal, physical, emotional, mental positive effects to this. And I want to keep going on this because I do think that inspiring idealism is not just like your legacy. I think it's something that all of us can own as a legacy and it requires choosing those things.

Speaker 2: 20:15

So you are on this. You know what we would call like this revolution, to really build a global coalition of kind of the kind and of the responsible, and you shared kind of like with everything that's happening around the world. It's time for the world's idealists to come together, to rise up and to unite, and I want you to talk about this vision of building this global coalition and how can we be a part of it and PS, I'm at the front of that line little eight-year-old Becky, who also does not understand why people don't have enough to eat or clean socks. I think of this movement as being the young and the old and everyone in between. Talk to us about it. Yeah, so this?

Speaker 3: 20:59

is really what I said has driven me since the very Like there, I think of this movement as being the young and the old and everyone in between Talk to us about it. Yeah, so this is really what I said has driven me since the very beginning, right, like I said, I was, I was, you know, 24 and I thought how can you connect good people to each other and to doing good? I mean, that was the thing, and I think that, in fact, most people, you know it's fascinating, some there's some things that everyone has in common, right? So, for example, every human being I've ever met wants to be respected, even the most disrespectful people want to be respected, right? So it's funny, like everyone wants to be treated well, even those who don't treat others very well, right, those who cut in line don't like it when other people cut in line, like it's. It's a weird, like people, yeah, no one. I mean, there are things that everyone hates, right? So I think that that, given the opportunity, people very often will do the right thing.

Speaker 3: 21:45

And I think, just to close the thought from earlier, I think the way, and I, you know, I don't complain about the same, or just, of course, you know, the newspapers, the media. They have to focus on exceptional events. That's their job, right? So a headline that would say, you know, 40,000 airplanes landed safely yesterday would be a very weird headline. The headline that would happen is a plane crashed yesterday somewhere in the world, right when that happens, and yet 40,000 airplanes landed safely is the reality. I mean, the reality is that you know, 3 million people took the subway this morning in a hot day not today, but in the summer and there wasn't one single fight among them. 3 million people sweating and no one had a fight Like, oh my God, like you know, it's like an astonishing human achievement, right? So lots and lots is possible.

Speaker 3: 22:34

So what are we trying to do? So I think, yes, start at dlsorg, build this website. But I think we can do much, much, much, much more than that, and I've been. I'll send you something at some point. I'll send you something soon to take a look at, and it's a 10 minute presentation you can sort of read and maybe link to when you publish this. But basically, after lots and lots of years of obsessing about this, it's come down to, I think, something that can be described in three sentences. I feel that. So, just again, what wants to back?

Speaker 3: 23:01

The challenge comes down to agreement, right? What can we all or many of us agree on? When human beings agree on something, you can do amazing stuff, right? If we all agree to go out and clean the streets tomorrow, we'll do that. Right. If we all agree to elect Becky governor of Oklahoma, well then, we'll work on that and we'll make it happen. Agreement releases energy.

Speaker 3: 23:24

The problem, though, of course, is that the world is very diverse, and so it's difficult to come to agreement on many things, and what we believe now, what I believe is that if we many of us can agree on just three very simple things, we can unleash something amazing. Uh, the first thing is is is conceptual. It's just a very simple set of values the idea that we would all like to build a world where more people, or all people, can lead free and dignified lives. So more freedom and more dignity for more people, and I want to do that in a spirit of generosity and respect. So respect, generosity, dignity and freedom as starting values. You can add to that joy and peace and unity and many other things, but it feels like we've been experimenting with it for a long time a world of more freedom and more dignity, with respect and generosity. That seems to draw great people and also draw the best in them. So that's like a big vision.

Speaker 3: 24:17

Second, a very like technical, practical thing declaring that one day a month you know how in the US. Just take an example any date In the US, march 7th, 3-7. 3-7 is March 7th. In Britain or in Europe it's actually July 3rd, right? The only days of the year where that's not true are 3, 3, 4, 4, 5, 5, 6, 6. We noticed that a few years ago. So we're going to grab those 12 days of the year, 1, 1 through 12, 12. We're going to call them idealist days and we're simply going to declare once a month, on idealist day, 7, 7, 8, 8, 9, 9,.

Speaker 3: 25:00

Come out and do something good for something or someone that you care about. So bake a cookie for your neighbor, or propose an idea for something big and wonderful, or have a debate, or invite people to think about building a new school, whatever you want, invite, share. Now it's not 12 MLK days. The action doesn't have to happen that day. It's one day a month to celebrate and shine a light on everything that is happening and propose more. So I'll give you a simple example media. You guys have a television station in Oklahoma. That television station, probably on Thanksgiving and Christmas, goes and does a cute little story about a cute little org that's helping someone do something. How, about once a month they actually did something cool, and and so on.

Speaker 3: 25:43

Idealist days go and run a story about a local organization doing fantastic work. Just do it right. Um, and so companies can invite people to speak. Uh, schools can open themselves up to people coming to organize the kids and speak with them. The mayor can close streets so people can come out and do cool stuff. And the more people do, the more people will do. Right, because it just feeds on itself and it's just a gimmick.

Speaker 3: 26:08

If you remember, there was a thing called Take your Daughter to Work Day. That was one day a year and just by declaring that day you give people permission to do it and you make it not weird, right? If you tell your boss well, it's take your daughter work day, I should bring my daughter. If you say, any other day it doesn't work, that day it works, and that day he or she are like jerks if they don't let you. Right, so let's do some cool stuff, so, so by. So that's so.

Speaker 3: 26:34

We've been experimenting with that for a while. We're going to start with that this year. So one one we're going to just get going around the world with at least you know happy idealist year or or whatever, and like let's just keep going and then mount on that so give people ideas, give people ways to do it, social media, etc. So instead of values, and once a month let's go, and that, I think, is like a backbone that will lead to many things, right, because you can imagine how, if in the city, people like the idea, a team or a group will form to promote that idea, right, which will then lead to many other things. An ecosystem can build on those like you know thing.

Speaker 3: 27:09

And the third one is this is, you know, sort of optional.

Speaker 3: 27:11

Whoever wants it can take it is that I think it's important to be seen everywhere. I think we need to sort of see and be seen, and so we're going to take this, uh, this little sort of logo that we've been playing with for a long time now, and we're going to tell people this is your logo. Essentially, take it, this yellow, green and blue circle and do whatever you want with it. Basically, you're doing some cool stuff. That logo can sort of represent freedom of dignity, and it can also represent action on those days. Use it, take it, paint it on a wall, wear it, tattoo it, do whatever you want, basically representing this movement of idealism coming together. So three simple things segment values, a monthly day of action and celebration and a way to be seen and to be shown, doing that without needing words. Right, you can see somebody anywhere in the world flashing that sign and you know that they're one of you and you're one of them. So that's where we're going next're one of them, so that's where we're going next. I hope.

Speaker 1: 28:02

Well, that's where we want to go next okay, as your marketer disguised as fundraiser graphic, resident graphic designer. I'm so here for this, I think. I think, if it's like, almost like looking at the clock and it's the 11 11 make a wish. It's like you see that date on your calendar and I do think, over time, as people understand and recognize, that it does trigger something in you to be like, oh, how can I channel this moment of kindness right now? So I love the way that you're really integrating. I'm curious what you think about. How do you see young people coming into this movement, future leaders? How are you really passing the baton? I mean, some of these ideas are. Are you already open hand to this? But how? How can we inspire young leaders to embrace this idea of idealism in their own working lives?

Speaker 3: 28:43

Yeah, I think for young people, especially if I think of really young people, so all the way down to basically high school, middle school even, but certainly college. I think that all over the world, in almost all cases, young people are incredibly underestimated. I think once in a while a young person gets an opportunity to do something amazing. It happens in emergencies, it happens in, maybe, like you know, political campaigns that don't have a lot of money, so they get some intern who's 17 and the intern starts running everything. Young people can do amazing stuff and you see it wherever they're given opportunities. It's interesting.

Speaker 3: 29:16

You know the I had many, many, many years ago. I had a girlfriend who had a 12 year old, uh, son and he was playing one of those, um, big video games that they play, you know, with with lots of people together. And I asked him I don't, I don't play that, I'm not a gamer and I sat beside him to sort of watch him playing and it was incredibly complex and I imagine having the thought like he was choosing from you know, 100 different swords and like you know shields, and all these like amazing stuff and I thought to myself someone's aside, this 12 year old is too young or too immature to learn about. You know, civic to learn something, and this kid has mastered this thing. That is so much more complex than the us government and so I think truly I mean it is truly has like hundreds of moving parts, conceptually right, and these kids completely are on top of this stuff and they get, they get dismissed, they get um, we, you know, we used to get many more. Now I mean we're we used to get calls and emails from people who basically say you know, I'd love to volunteer and help out. I mean, we used to get calls and emails from people who basically say you know, I'd love to volunteer and help out, I'm 16. I was told to come back when I'm an adult. Like, they just get you know and there's no way, I think, in most cases, for kids to actually feel they can make a difference or there's nothing that happens to them, which is also horrible. They get shunted off to like know, youth work, like, go work with other youths and like no, I actually want to change climate change, I don't want to work with other kids about kid stuff.

Speaker 3: 30:44

So I think that that opening us up and saying, no matter where you are, no matter how old you are, no matter, you know you can, you can actually do something that day as well, uh, in school or wherever you want. I mean, now I know I, I, I look old, I am old. It's a long story, as I said earlier. Now I know, I, I, I look old, I am old, it's a long story, as I said earlier. But now you know, I have a 20 year old daughter who I said I met my wife. She had a 10 year old, now she's 20. And we have a four year old now as well, which is a longer story.

Speaker 3: 31:10

Uh, yeah, and and this was yeah, it was one of my plans to you I talk to her and you listen to this four-year-old and she has a moral sense of the word. I mean, she will tell me five times a day that is not fair. And she gets it and most of the time she's right, and so I think that kids can absolutely make a difference. Anyway, long answer. I think that lots of opportunities for kids to suggesting. Also, you know, sometimes cliches are cliches because they're true. The future is theirs. You know, in, in 2050, uh, I'll be either long gone or, you know, 89, she'll be 30. I mean, the future is hers, and so she should have a huge ownership stake informing the future that she'll have to live in. So, yeah, they should be invited and given the tools to do lots of cool things.

Speaker 2: 32:05

I agree with you a hundred percent and we, we have been hanging our shingle on the fact that we believe not just Gen Z but Gen Alpha. I have a daughter that's, you know, in that same age range as yours, and there is something about this age range y'all that is to me the great unlock of idealism, of justice, of love, and the way that they are able to take these basic principles respect you talk about that integrity that we've taught them and turn them back on us in questions. And I got to shout out a couple of organizations who are taking kids and using them to do incredible things in the world. I think of In a Perfect World Foundation mobilizing kids.

Speaker 2: 32:55

I think about Miracle Messages out of San Francisco, the 776 Foundation, who is taking fellows from age 18 to 22 and giving them $100,000 to solve climate change in really creative, interesting ways.

Speaker 2: 33:13

And it's because I think the benefit is they are not looking at the world in the way that we are through our cynicism, through the rejection that we've all received, and I do think that there is some great unlock there with idealism and I have to say, just as a marketer, the dreaminess of having the kid leading the adult is really a disruptive notion that I am here for, and I just think your story is so beautiful I mean, I think, the way that you tell it and it's funny to me like you apologize for going so long and I'm thinking please speak more, please keep going and double-clicking on that.

Speaker 2: 33:52

But we really do honor story here and we believe that storytelling is the heartbeat of connection. It's the thing that helps us connection, it's the thing that helps us relate, it's the connective tissue that binds us. And I'm wondering if there's a story in your life that you would share with us of a moment of philanthropy, of generosity, of kindness, of something that's come into your world and it was so profound that it stayed with you. Do you have one that's kind of percolating?

Speaker 3: 34:21

um, I think I want to say two things. One just to complete the thing from earlier about the kids. Recently, on twitter about a couple weeks ago, and then on facebook, more a longer time ago, I asked sort of a community of people um, when was the first time in their life that they, how old were they? And what was the first time where they saw that they, how old were they, and what was the first time where they saw something that felt like an injustice to them and that they remember? And what's fascinating is that on Facebook I think we had like a thousand replies and on Twitter maybe like a hundred a couple of weeks ago, and the consensus of the forms is that between six and eight years old basically kids six to seven to eight is when this memory of I saw something that felt deeply wrong to me in terms of how someone was treated. This time on Twitter there were three or four people saying the same thing of how my dad treated my mom. Basically. There was someone who was very specific who said my dad and mom worked in the same factory and had the same job and when they came home, every night dad sat at the television and mom had to make dinner every night, and that felt wrong to me at six years old. So that person said right. So I think people, kids know, and I think what happens is that as parents, we have a choice for what to do with that. And I think that people and I hope it's okay to just add a little bit more to this, people, I think minimize the power they have to shape their kids right.

Speaker 3: 35:47

So your daughter comes from school and she says you know, mommy, something weird happened today, that the teachers had something really weird to Jenny, right, and you, as a mom, you can say, oh, that sounds bad, let's call Jenny's mom and ask if she knows, or let's call the teacher, or let's find out more. Right, you can sort of go for that. Or you can tell your daughter did she tell you anything bad? And you're like no, well then mind your own business and just stick to your thing and nothing bad happened to you and don't go around. Whatever blah like, whatever blah, blah, blah. Right, and you can imagine you know people that would give both answers and in that moment you're like squelching that little girl for life, right, if you say, oh, mind your own business, she would never help you. You know all those horrible cynical answers where you take a little kid and turn her into a cynic just in that moment. Oh, my mom told me to mind my own business, or you can actually encourage that. So I think, yes, kids can be amazing. I think parents, adults, play a huge role in encouraging that or in squelching that. It's funny.

Speaker 3: 36:57

You said an act of philanthropy. I'm going to be very literal with that. A few years ago I got a call from someone, a young person, that worked for a foundation at a company that she was. She had convinced the CEO of this, of this bank in New York, that they should have some kind of philanthropic impact arm and that she should be the one to do it. And he sort of allowed her to. You know, launch this like in-house micro foundation and just like all kinds of stuff.

Speaker 3: 37:23

So they were interested in education. So she called me up one day and she said you want to have breakfast with me to pick my brain about? You know stuff, and, as you know, as a nonprofit as a small nonprofit you don't say no when a funder you know says that. I mean, the power differential is such that if a funder asks you out for breakfast, you go, and it's not necessarily fair, but that's life, right. And so I went and she was very nice. We had this conversation, it was great.

Speaker 3: 37:50

And I went back to the office and like, whatever, if this happens, you know, once in a while, okay, I helped her, you know, with some ideas about things that she was considering that nothing to do with us, um, and then a few hours later, I'm in the office and I get this little sort of online report uh, it's very seldom that we get online donations, idealist and and there's this little report that comes through my, my, my screen that someone just gave us a five thousand dollar donation and I was like what?

Speaker 3: 38:17

This is weird that this has never happened to us online credit card. So I go in and I look and it was her. And so I wrote and I said you know what was that? And she said well, I took an hour of your time and I think that we should pay for that. And so I told my boss that I'm not going to go out and talk to people If he doesn't let me, in advance, pay them for their time, their organization, not them. And so it was wonderful that she didn't say a word. She just went and did it, and I wish more funders behaved that way. It was literal philanthropy, without being asked, without being prompted, and it was this beautiful surprise, and they weren't a big foundation that was just getting started.

Speaker 1: 38:59

And it was this like beautiful surprise, and they weren't a big foundation that was just getting started but they felt, you know I, I took an hour of your time and and your nonprofit should be compensated for that, and it just your words. I remember, following along the comments of you asking about the first injustice. Like I would say, we'll link that up in the show notes because it's one of those things that I think everybody wants to think back on. But just to read that shows you probably a lot of reasons why we're in this work. You know it stitches us together. It's early moments in our life that make us want to fight for good in the world and different capacities. So thank you for your wisdom.

Speaker 3: 39:40

We're going to ask you for a one good thing.

Speaker 1: 39:42

This is a piece of advice. It could be a habit, it could be a mantra. That's true to you. What would you want to share with our community as a one good thing? We start to wrap up.

Speaker 3: 39:49

One piece of advice. I'll give you one piece of advice that maybe no one has given your community, maybe, because I'm sure they all you know. I'll say one thing. I think that that maybe I shouldn't, but I will anyway.

Speaker 3: 40:04

People say, you know, always if you have a dream, go for it, and I'm all for that. I've been doing that my whole life. But if you dream or if your idea is a bad one, uh, find out as soon as possible and don't do it. In other words, I'll tell you what I mean by that. I think that I think that, um, sometimes we all have ideas that feel amazing to us. That's the whole point of you know, your idea feels great to you.

Speaker 3: 40:28

Um, go around, ask some people that you, that you trust, and and it's true that very often a new idea will seem weird to many people Many people will tell you, oh, that's never going to work. But not everyone Usually. You know, jeff Bezos, you know, tells a story of how, when he was starting Amazon, he needed to raise a million bucks and in those days the web was so weird and there was no e-commerce and stuff, so he had to work really hard in Seattle to convince 20 investors to give him 50K each, and that's how he assembled his first million bucks investment, and so he tells it as a story of how hard this was and whatever. Yeah, dude, but you did get 20 people to give you 50. In other words, there was something, what you were saying, enough to inspire 20 people to part with 50K and give them to you. So your idea wasn't actually insane, and we know that it wasn't. So I think there's something about if every single person you trust tells you that your idea is between crazy and stupid and won't work, then maybe there's something to it.

Speaker 3: 41:34

If you find at least one or two people who believe what you're doing, that's a huge difference with zero and so there are many ideas out there and pursue the ones that seem great to you, but don't also waste too much time pursuing something that maybe won't work. That's one. Now I'll add a positive note to that, which is I think that if you have an idea, way too often people spend lots of time figuring out how to fund it before doing anything right. So, for example, if you want to start a mentoring program for girls in Oklahoma, it's like well, I'd love to have you know, 100 girls get mentored, so we need to raise a million bucks, and if we don't raise a million bucks, we can't do it. How about you start mentoring one girl in your kitchen table and then also raise the money?

Speaker 3: 42:22

There's something about, there's a certain mentality, and I think you've met the kind of person who, basically, is not going to do anything unless they raise the money to do the big thing. Start doing what you can, where you, where you can and where you are, and then it'll also you'll find out if your idea makes sense or not. Right, like if, if basically, after mentoring that girl three times in your kitchen table, she hates your guts, well then maybe it's not a great idea and it's not going to work right. So I think there's a huge, I think, advantage in just starting. Just go, go Try it. What's going to happen, right?

Speaker 3: 42:56

And I think in your case, for example, you're such a great example of this because in a podcast, everyone wants to have as many listeners as Joe Rogan, maybe, but your first edition is not going to. And so what do you? Do Not tape the first podcast, because it won't have a big audience. That makes no sense. The only way your 20th podcast will have more people is if your second podcast have more than the first one. I mean, there's no other way, and I think people would love to be at the 20th podcast without doing the third one. Well, it doesn't work that way, unfortunately, you know.

Speaker 2: 43:36

I'm talking about pilots, y'all. I mean, it is a site in San Francisco only.

Speaker 3: 44:02

And no one else in San Francisco had ever heard of this, because it was a San Francisco site. And then in 2000, 99, 2000, they decided to open their second city and they came to New York. They sent someone to like scout New York and for some reason they came and they met with us, met with me, and I remember distinctly telling the guy this sounds very hippie in San Francisco, this is never going to work in New York. And the thing is so, here am I, you know, having told someone that Craigslist is not going to work right, and so I learned my lesson, and I will never again tell someone their idea won't work. I'll ask questions, I'll probe, I'll say you know what about this? Or have you thought about that? Who am? I'll probe, I'll say you know what about this? Or have you thought about that? I am. Who am I to say this won't work? So it's not. It's about finding people who say oh my God, this is awesome, build things that you would use, right.

Speaker 2: 44:54

I mean, I love the way you see the world. It's just unlike anyone else and that's what makes you the idealist, and I think you can. You're also showing that you can be an idealist and still be a realist about a lot of things, and that they can meld together. So people are going to want to connect with you. They're going to want to connect with idealistorg. Tell us where you hang out online. Where's the best place that people can get connected in to your work?

Speaker 3: 45:17

So I'll tell you it's pretty simple. I think idealistorg, yes, so the website idealistorg. Uh, the I'm on Twitter, um, I still call it Twitter at um uh twittercom slash Ami Dar, a-m-i-d-a-r.

Speaker 3: 45:36

And then my email address. It's Ami at idealistorg and I have no problem, you know, sharing it here dropping an email. I may not respond immediately. I'm always going to read your email and I'll get back to you sooner or later. Maybe not in 10 minutes, but I'll get back to you. And so I'm EAMI at Adealorg. I'm here, I'm not going anywhere, yeah.

Speaker 1: 45:53

I mean showing up generously to the very last minute of this podcast. Thank you, Thank you for your.