578. Cultivating Wellness + Building Balanced Cultures Within Our Orgs - Marisol Pineda Conde, Kirk Brown, and Maya Enista Smith

🎧 Replay Alert! Today, we’re bringing you an unforgettable conversation straight from our Impact Up gathering focusing on Pause ⏸️ If you’re looking to gain actionable ideas to enhance your organization’s culture and promote wellness at all levels, this panel is for you 🥳 We gathered leaders and missions we admire who have built cultures of wellness within their nonprofits, and this convo did not disappoint. They shared incredible insights on creating sustainable, supportive workplaces that prioritize the health and resilience of staff. Tune in!

Panelists 

• Marisol Pineda Conde, Deputy Director, The Teaching Well
• Kirk Brown, CEO, Handy Inc.
• Maya Smith, President, Thoughtful Human

Impact Uprising Members get full access to all ImpactUp Replays, so this is your invitation to join us! You’ll get instant access to our member content hub - backed by hundreds of premium We Are For Good content resources + you’ll be invited to member-only gatherings, our private podcast and more. Join today at weareforgood.com.

Episode Highlights

• Personal reflections on pausing (5:45) 
• Building balanced cultures at The Teaching Well (10:10)
• Prioritizing staff well-being at Handy, Inc. (14:30)
• Investing in staff wellness (17:35)
• Creating wellness practices that are inclusive + responsive (22:50)
• Balancing immediate needs with playing the long game (25:50)
• How to create buy-in around wellness-oriented cultures (30:30)
• One Good Thing (34:25)

For more information + episode details visit: weareforgood.com/episode/578.

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Chapters

• 0:00 Cultivating Wellness in Nonprofit Organizations
• 14:28 Building Inclusive Wellness Practices
• 25:55 Fostering Wellness in Nonprofit Leadership
• 37:28 Cultivating Kindness Within Ourselves

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:52

Hey friends, today we wanted to bring you a special replay from our recent Impact Up focusing on pause, which gathered thousands of changemakers around the world to talk about our mental health and wellbeing together.

Speaker 2: 1:04

Yeah, if you're looking to gain actionable ideas to enhance your org's culture and promote wellness at all levels, then this panel's for you. We gathered leaders and missions that we really admire who've built cultures of wellness within their own nonprofits, and this convo did not disappoint. They shared incredible insights on creating sustainable, supportive workplaces that prioritize the health and resilience of staff.

Speaker 1: 1:27

And don't forget Impact Uprising members get full access to all Impact Up replays. So this is your invitation to join us. You get instant access to our member content hub, which is backed by hundreds of premium we Are For Good content resources and you'll be invited to members-only gatherings, our private podcast and more. Learn more and join today at weareforgoodcom. Hey, I'm Jon. And I'm Becky, and this is the we Are For Good podcast.

Speaker 2: 1:52

Nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world.

Speaker 1: 2:01

We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an impact uprising.

Speaker 2: 2:09

So welcome to the good community. We're nonprofit professionals, philanthropists, world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.

Speaker 1: 2:20

So let's get started.

Speaker 2: 2:23

I'm just dancing into each one.

Speaker 1: 2:27

My heart is swelling from that last chat. I mean, man, we've been focused on so much of the inner work. You're here at our second panel of the day where we're talking about. How does this resonate out? What does it look like as we really try to build wellness into the cultures, the very fabric of the organizations that we love and want to pour into? And so now this panel is stacked. Can we just say this? Becky and I are so leaned in, so geeked out. We love the humans that are here to teach and to share their path, and so it's a huge honor to introduce them to you.

Speaker 1: 2:54

I'm going to start with Marisol Pineda-Conde. She's the deputy director at the Teaching Well. Y'all know the Teaching Well has been getting all sorts of love today that they completely deserve of the way that they have just shown up and surrounded these rooms with care and really their expertise. But Marisol is an anchor of organizational effectiveness. She has mountains of energy that exude strength and steadiness. She is a former school leader. She offers a unique perspective on how to support the transformation of school ecosystems toward human-centered policies and practices in a way that promote educator wellness and sustainability Things that I need someone to lean on these structures and these systems. My friend, I'm so glad that you're here. She is a dedicated wife. Also, she's a mother of three. She lovingly brings her mama bear energy and her work to the Teaching Well team. She is our what they call jefa por vida In Spanish. I'll have to have some translations for my friends here, but it is a delight to have you here. Thanks for being here.

Speaker 3: 3:44

My pleasure. Thank you for having me.

Speaker 2: 3:46

Oh, and next is our dear friend Maya Anesta-Smith. She is the president of Thoughtful Human Y'all. We've already talked talked about thoughtful human cards. Today they are literally on a mission to help all of us find ways to honest ways to communicate and dynamic relationships during life's really challenging circumstances. And PS, you can totally plant these plastic free cards. So your joy goes in and it comes out. And previously Maya served as the founding executive director of someone you may have heard of called Lady Gaga's Born this Way Foundation for over a decade, where she worked to empower young people to create a kinder, braver world and also be such a source for mental support. She was, prior to the role at that foundation, she was CEO at Mobilizeorg, where she worked with millennials to identify societal changes unique to their generation and fund their solutions through grants. You know you want to hear the story about Gaga schlepping out houses during Hurricane Harvey relief. We will drop that link. But, Maya, we're so excited you're here. Welcome, dear friend.

Speaker 4: 4:55

Thank you so much for having me. I'm so happy. Oh my gosh.

Speaker 1: 4:58

And Kirk Brown is actually here, my friend. He is in Florida and we had a scare, of course, but Kirk was able to join us today. He is the CEO of Handy Inc. We love this organization. He is responsible and dedicated to education and betterment of marginalized and at-use risk youth in South Florida and since 1985, they've transferred the lives of over 50,000 at-promise youth and their families by empowering them to take control of their own narratives and create a better future for themselves. He has a master's in social work. He's based in Fort Lauderdale, florida. He is a repeat guest on the podcast Kirk Brown. Get into this house, my friend. Good to see you.

Speaker 5: 5:34

Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here, to be placed in a company of such wonderful people seeking to make a better world. So let's go.

Speaker 2: 5:43

Let's go. I mean, we talked about taking that pause and now we're moving into cultivating wellness and building these extremely balanced cultures within our organizations. When the culture's balanced, the people are balanced. But guess what? It starts with us first. So, knowing that our theme today is pause, I want to kick it to each of you to share what pausing looks like in your life, kind of what's resonating with you. How are you seeing pausing your organization?

Speaker 3: 6:11

Pick personal, professional, whatever you choose, and Marisol, I'm going to start with you personal, professional, whatever you choose and, marisol, I'm going to start with you. Yes, thank you so much. I think my heart goes out to folks across the country that are struggling with some of the climate impact, and one of the things that is true is that in Southern California, where I'm currently based, the climate is in our favor, and so pause for me in this moment really looks like walking away from my computer. So often I'm engaging in digital formats, and so it's literally walking outside and allowing the sun to kiss my face and just allowing a moment.

Speaker 3: 6:48

Sometimes it's 30 seconds, ideally it's 15 minutes, but the reality of the day involves stepping outside and being able to have that moment to remind myself of my humanity by feeling that touch and that kiss of the day involves stepping outside and being able to have that moment to remind myself of my humanity by feeling that touch and that kiss of the sun and some shape or form. So in this season for me that is such a gift and a treat to be able to do that Walking away Maya.

Speaker 2: 7:10

what about you?

Speaker 4: 7:12

I love that and I'm in Northern California and so it's similarly beautiful here, I think for me, I'm really struck, coming into this conversation, about the idea of choosing to pause versus being forced to pause. And I have Becky we talk, and John we talk about this a lot. I'm sort of on a grief journey as I recently lost my mom, right, and so that sort of forced pause of your life, now the choice to pause really for me is the people in my life. How can I be with and near the people in my life, and that's sort of what I gravitate to professionally and personally. And so for me, pausing actually, oddly, is being in community with folks. Sometimes it's doing the work, sometimes it's taking a nap with my daughter, but for me, pausing and I think for those of us who are listening pausing can be by ourselves, it can be with people. There's no one way that it looks right. And so for me, pausing is being in community, in the recognition that the people that we collect and that fill our days are the most essential asset.

Speaker 2: 8:24

So good, and I want to snuggle with Logan too.

Speaker 4: 8:26

So OK, kirk what else have you got?

Speaker 5: 8:30

So pausing for me is I choose to pause. It's for me, it's a very wonderful thing to just again, Marisol, step away from the computer, leave the cell phone behind, right, and just walk away. And for me, I pause in the reflections of people and with the hope that they bring. You know, sometimes I'll just pause and go sit down with one of our 15-year-olds and just talk about.

Speaker 5: 8:57

You know the best TikTok artists that they have today. You know and just laugh and joke and what is your favorite song? And then you know it makes it easier to come back to the computer when you see the worth in what you do. But in addition to that, my team will tell you every now and again I'll just stop in the middle of everything and just write a poem. So I would just take a pause out of the, in the middle of the chaos, in the middle of a situation, to ground myself, because it is a part of self-care, right, reaching into yourself to say, okay, at this very moment I'm valuable to me, right, and so that, for me, is is essentially how I pause.

Speaker 1: 9:39

Right, and so that for me is uh, is essentially how I pause. So, beautiful friends, I mean I love the tone setting walking into this conversation and I'm going to kick it to you first, marisol, because when we think about through the lens of organizationally, how do we build more balanced cultures? Y'all do this professionally, like. Y'all are consultants in the work. You have to go and advise, but yet at the same time you're trying to build this in your team, so you can't just be talking heads and be disconnected from how we actually show up. And so I love getting your lens to hear about specifically what are some of the ways you embed wellness into the fabric of your work at the teaching well, both internally and the clients you work with.

Speaker 3: 10:12

Yes, absolutely. I think so often we talk about at the Teaching Well that we're on a mission. We're on a mission to build cultures that we don't have to heal from, and when we think about that that notion seems so vast. It's like huge right to think about building a culture, but it really is made up of the micro moments. It's made up of the small shifts, it's made up of those small decisions, and so I think about how our wellness lives in those little moments.

Speaker 3: 10:43

It lives in every meeting, starting with a somatic practice or a human center check-in, and not the like what flavor ice cream would you be? Or if you were an animal, what would it be? But like how's your heart today? On a scale of one to five, and making space for the diversity of entry points for folks. It's making pivots and adjustments. Where we have agency, like after holidays, we all need to transition back, so why not push our meetings an hour? We can do that. That's within our locus of control to say we need a little bit of a transition and a buffer.

Speaker 3: 11:18

It is really shifting our meeting structures. Sometimes it's jumping on the phone and saying can we both walk while we chat about this thing and slack each other some notes that feel particularly relevant, that we don't want to lose sight of, and so I really think about the way that wellness lives in these small accumulation over time, and it's not such large, significant shifts, but it's really in the everyday practice. It's in the every hour practice, it's in the every moment practice where we can think about are we structuring agendas to include breaks or are we not? Because that's an intentional decision we're making and we're either saying wellness is welcome here or we're sending a different message. And so those are some of the things that come to mind.

Speaker 3: 12:03

At the teaching wall, we also love a work burst of having an opportunity to come together to create collaborative spaces to tackle the stickier parts of our work. Sometimes it's drafting that email that we've been putting off because the language is not flowing, and so utilizing supports with each other to ensure that we can get past some of those hurdles, but it's really ensuring that we're not walking away with more to-dos and that we can get things done in the space. And again, it's those orientations, those small decisions, it's centering where we have an agency to say our wellness is welcome here, and that's the part of living I always talk about how the hardest part of working at the teaching well is that we actually live it every day, and so I can't preach being well if I'm not actually doing the things to get there myself.

Speaker 2: 12:54

So we're all on this journey things to get there myself. So we're all on this journey. Ooh, do you feel exposed in that?

Speaker 1: 13:00

one.

Speaker 2: 13:05

John, like I do, I tell you this is a really hard practice for us at we Are For Good. We've spent 20 years well, I guess 37 years combined in nonprofit between John and I, and that grind culture is real and my therapist calls it left-handed moves. We've got to take those left-handed moves and do the opposite, go against the grain, and those practices are so important. The 1% shifts to your point, maricel, do add up. So before I kick it to you, kirk, I've got a very specific question for you.

Speaker 2: 13:31

I want to lift some curation from the community here. I want to know, friends, how your organization is prioritizing staff well-being. We want your cool stories, we want your ideas, we want your feedback. If you have great fails, sure throw those in there. We'll avoid them, or maybe they'll work for some of our organizations. But let's curate up how your organizations are prioritizing the well-being that we want to see absolutely threaded in the foundation of all that we do. So drop that in the chat. We're going to curate it up and see what we can find and discover with each other. But, kirk, we loved when you came on to the podcast and I'm wondering if you can kind of take us back again, kirk, because you said that when you look around, looking at your staff's well-being is priority number one for you. Tell us a little bit about how you arrived there and how you're doing that at Candy Inc.

Speaker 5: 14:28

OK, so how I arrived there? It's it's hard to not arrive there. I mean, I work with people every day that, no matter what's going on in their lives, they're putting other people's lives first.

Speaker 5: 14:46

right, and let me rephrase that I work with imperfect people, as all of us do. Right that put other people's lives first and as they arrive to the door or to the consciousness that today they have to go in and they have to deal with people who have been abused, neglected, abandoned, homeless, they're putting their lives or what scars they have from a societal perspective to decide to do that work.

Speaker 5: 15:15

And so the first thing I do is make sure I do the work on me before I get here, because all culture is made up of puzzle pieces, right, and we're all a piece of the puzzle, and so it's very hard to walk into a framework of any organization to say I'm going to make it better, I'm going to make it for people, if you don't do the work on you before you get there. One of the things I've been practicing and just trying to figure out is, you know, beating the team to kindness, observe your people so effectively that they don't have to ask for a kind gesture from an organization.

Speaker 5: 15:54

So, for example, I just saw that you did a great event. Work from home on Monday. Don't come to the office on Tuesday. I realize you just had a young person who may have had a suicidal episode. Right, take the next two days off, it's OK, we'll still be here when you get back.

Speaker 5: 16:13

Right, beating your team to kindness tells them that you're considering them as a person, and the other part is don't you know? It comes with a lot of throwback sometimes. Be okay being kind because the society somehow has been giving people a lot of points for not being kind. And so be okay being kind in conflict and chaos. Be okay being kind even when the employee or the community partner is wrong, if you're on the side of kindness and know the limitations of being human. And so, at the end of the day, if we continue to put those kind of aspects forward with our team beating them to kindness, being okay as a leader being kind Sometimes you know you're so kind you're like, oh, you're a pushover. No, I'm just being kind in a world that sometimes berate kindness and it's a risky business to do, especially when you're a leader. And so for us, if we're okay being kind, then our team will be okay, being kind to their community.

Speaker 1: 17:14

I mean I hope you're seeing this chat the love in this room no-transcript.

Speaker 4: 17:46

We talk least about is kindness to yourself. As leaders, right, we actually are really really good about talking not really good. We can get a lot better about talking about kindness to others and what is hard sometimes as leaders of these movements and these organizations that have these lofty goals. Right, I literally have a tattoo that says be kind, and I worked for an organization. Now, that is thoughtful human right.

Speaker 4: 18:13

But I'm imperfect myself. So how do we hold the dissonance between what we are encouraging and espousing and putting out into the world and the reality that not only do we work with imperfect people, we ourselves are imperfect and showing that process, being vulnerable in that conversation and the struggles that we have, I think is so important, and having understanding and grace for ourselves when we? You know, my husband jokes that the be kind tattoo should be facing me instead of outside, so that I mean for me. When I think about this idea of how to do it in a culture, I think there's there's really like four pieces for me. The first is is to listen, right. I, I, my whole career has been about listening to and investing in people. When they are brave enough to say this is what I need, that we leverage everything that we have access to to meet them in that moment and support them Right. So number one is listen that moment and support them right. So number one is listen they're. So.

Speaker 4: 19:23

I'm in awe sometimes by how few processes include people, include the communities served by the organization, the donors, the board member, the staff, right? Not just like an executive team meeting on wellness, right, but literally everybody. How do we listen to folks and get really curious and not judgmental, because I love the, I love Marisol's work first. It's like the 40 minutes that my daughter is in dance class and I'm outside like in my car on the laptop are the best 40 minutes the organization gets from me all day because there's a beginning, there's an end, there's nowhere to go, right, and so work and productivity looks different. So, first, how are we listening? Second, how are we practicing and playing with different structures? So my son started middle school and in his middle school they change what time they have math every day. Right, sometimes they have it first period, sometimes they have it six periods, sometimes they have it right before lunch, the idea being that we present as our best selves at different times and we need to practice.

Speaker 4: 20:22

Right, when are we most excited for a staff meeting? When are we most tired and resistant to brainstorming? Right, like. Be aware of those changes on your team and be willing to like mess with it. Right, be like, actually Monday morning staff meetings. We're going to miss that and we're going to do Wednesday after lunch. Right, be like, actually Monday morning staff meetings. We're going to miss that and we're going to do Wednesday after lunch, right, just like, iterate and practice it.

Speaker 4: 20:43

The next thing is to encourage it.

Speaker 4: 20:45

I really really think, sometimes creating space and we're like, yes, do your wellness, right, but like, when in my day am I going to do my wellness, because these are all the other things that are required from me?

Speaker 4: 21:00

And like, if Marisol does Wednesdays wellness and I do wellness on Thursdays and Kirk does wellness on Fridays, then like we're all coming back to a lot of emails from each other, right, so how do we set a collective tone and pause for wellness that allows people to not be thinking the whole time of what they're coming back to? And then the last thing I'd say is like we have to repeat it. Right, this is not like a one-time fits all. This is not like a quarterly meeting on wellness, like, literally, this cycle happens every day. Right, you listen, you practice, encourage, repeat. You listen, practice, encourage, repeat, right, and so and it's not, it's not my job as president, right, it's not Marisol's job as deputy director, it's everybody's job to be engaged in this cycle. And for the times where you fall short, for the times you have to cover your be kind tattoo because you're talking shit, be kind to yourself.

Speaker 2: 21:54

So Maya, I saw you out there totally giving that Ted Lasso quote of be curious, not judgmental. That is how we're going to break these cycles that have really oppressed us into thinking that we cannot take these breaks, that there is not enough time to microdose our own wellness, to put our own needs first, to put to check in on our staff. My gosh, the KPI should supers, supersede the wellbeing of the staff. So I kind of want to get into this inclusion piece just a little bit. Marisol, I want you to talk to the team about how we can ensure that these wellness programs we've been talking about balance and boundaries and wellness all day how can we make sure that they're grounded in inclusive practices and responsive to the diverse needs of our staff, knowing that we all have different lived experience, we all have different background?

Speaker 3: 22:49

What do you recommend? I think Maya teed us up so beautifully in the process that you narrated, because I would say that those are the key ingredients to ensure that whatever offering wellness offering is inclusive, that we need to listen absolutely, and I think so often this is a misstep. There is this notion that it needs to be equal, that every employee needs to get exactly the same thing at exactly the same time in the exact same amount, and the reality is that that does not reflect humanity. We are different people, we have different needs and we need things to look different, and so one of the things that we need to do is to really listen, for what are the needs that our folks are elevating? Having the same day off on the same at the same time sometimes is supportive, because we have that predictability, we have that containment, and other times we may need a one-off Kirk you mentioned, you know, sometimes the work is so impactful for specific members of the team that there's a different need that surfaces for the folks in that space, and so I think one of the things that we really need to do is remove this notion that we are experts in other people's lives and that we have the solution or the wellness strategy because it's worked for us. And so when we can remove our ego, we can remove our positionality, we can remove these layers and we say what is most supportive to you in your body in this moment in time and that we can.

Speaker 3: 24:25

Maya, you talked about like leveraging all the resources that we have to respond to that need is when we have wellness initiatives or wellness practices that are inclusive, that make space for what folks are authentically needing. In our organization, we have a wellness stipend and folks have agency to decide what that looks like. For me it looks like therapy sometimes. Other times it looks like body work. I need a massage. For some of my colleagues it's maybe Reiki or it's maybe a sound bath. Really it is what they need in that moment, at that time, and that we trust our folks to make those decisions and to be experts in their own needs, and that our systems are flexible enough to allow that to happen. That is human-centered, that is inclusive, and so I really think about some of the ways in which we can do that more often and create space to authentically listen.

Speaker 1: 25:23

I mean y'all. I'm loving the practical in the chat, I'm loving how you broke that down, just the inclusion, and like this path forward starting to feel like possible, with y'all here kind of being our guides. I want to kick it over to you because, like you've kind of cracked the code on how do you balance, sit in the tension of this, of balancing the needs that you have for the immediate, for your organization, with playing the long game, the long term sustainability, of creating this wellness, human centered culture. At the end of the day, what?

Speaker 5: 25:53

does that look like for you For the long game? I'm going to go back to what Marisol said earlier and Maya alluded to about listening, because I think the true listening happens in conflict. It's easy to listen to each other when we're smiling across the table. The true listening really happens right before a write-up. It really happens right before, and I'm going to challenge us here right, listening while there is conflict tells you a lot about your organization. I have a saying that I say.

Speaker 5: 26:28

A lot around our staff here is that I don't kick graves, and that is maybe the Jamaican in me. There's a saying that you don't kick someone while they're down. Right, obviously, there's someone that's not in the nucleus of whatever we're doing, perceived as not pulling all their weight at that moment. Having the ability to exude compassion and kindness in that moment and really talk about self-care and limitations of humanness and listening really drives you now to the goal. The goal for the organization is going to remain the goal of the organization, right, and so how we get to the goal should not be breaking people on the way there.

Speaker 1: 27:12

Ooh.

Speaker 5: 27:14

Yes, right.

Speaker 1: 27:14

Goodness yeah.

Speaker 5: 27:16

And so what pieces can we put together so we could get to the goal effectively? And the other quote that I say a lot here is I don't care how we scored a touchdown, I want to see who picks up the fumble how they pick up the fumble and what they say after they pick up the fumbles ball, because that's a true unit, that's true wellness, that's true community.

Speaker 5: 27:41

Yeah, I've, I fumbled a few balls. I started a management meeting the other day. I was like listen, I fumbled a ball and let me tell you I'm so proud of Lindsay Cause I had to call Lindsay at like six 30 on my way to another another appointment and I forgot to do something and she just jumped on it and effectively treated me with compassion and grace and kindness and I can appreciate that. So the goal of the organization is always going to be to go outcomes. I know for our nonprofit world we hear that a lot Outcomes and stats and the ability to perceive a grant or donor or community goal is going to be there. But our job is to figure out who is in this group with us that can maximize what they're doing and can bring along the rest of the team to achieve that goal. And then it flips from one manager to the next manager, to the next manager and having your team play to their strengths. As human beings, all of us have a missing piece that somebody else is there to fulfill.

Speaker 2: 28:47

There we go, puzzle pieces spinning in again, and I want to talk about leadership and team buy-in, because there is so much fracturing going on right now. I mean, nonprofit alone is in a straight crisis. I mean, I don't like to be an alarmist, but this is reality. We have people burning out at unbelievable levels. The data we're looking at shows that almost 75% of people are going to change jobs in the next 18 months within this sector, and over a third of them will never come back to the work, and so we're seeing staff retention drop. We're seeing giving drop.

Speaker 2: 29:30

We're tired y'all. We are tired. We need leaders to rise, we need staff to buy in, and so, maya, I'm going to kick it to you and say she's like, oh geez, here I'm going to take the yoga, and they're in all kinds of different roles. How can we start to take this conversation and do what we Are For Good, does best, which is activate around it? How do we start to build the buy-in to create these wellness-oriented cultures that do help us thrive, where we see retention rise, where we see giving rise, where we see people amplifying these missions, see diving into giving his identity? I'm dying to hear what you say, because I think you slay this in the real world.

Speaker 4: 30:20

I really do well, I think we're all works in progress trying to figure it out, so I'll just like share an example where I was humbled and and what I think needs to come out of it, both for myself and maybe for the sector. So I am of like things I'm proudest of, like I want to tell you. It's like like maybe wasn't necessary, but I felt important, right. And we in this sector measure things obsessively, right, like literally me too. Right, I have a million miles and and, and my husband said to me he's like maybe can you stop talking about that. Right, like thank you for the like vacations that it's gotten us. But really, what a million miles says to me is like busyness and importance and um and necessity Right. And what it says to him and to my children is like absence Right.

Speaker 4: 31:30

And so I think, when we think about what is to be measured for our sector, right, could we create a harder to measure metric around wellness, around fumbling the ball right? How many times did the ball drop and we picked it up right Around? Failure how many times did Handy need to fail before it saved these young people's lives? And what did we learn from that failure? There's so much that could be measured, that we like sweep under the rug because we want to say we got x number of grants and we traveled this many miles and this many meetings and this many awards, right? And so I think the key for me in this is thinking about like, what does enough look like in an unquantifiable world? And I don't know the answer, but I think it stems from like what are we measuring and why? And what's really hard to measure that we're not paying attention to? And how can we collect it? Maybe we can't measure it, but how can we collect it and share it and aggregate it and amplify it? But I mean, I kind of want to hear Marisol and Kirk answer that question too.

Speaker 1: 32:39

Get in there, guys, Kirk let's see it so.

Speaker 5: 32:47

I think for our sector that's 75% leaving next 18 months. I think, as leaders in our sector, we have to take the risk to add value to our teams in rooms that they're not in. When there's discussions about salaries, when there's discussions about the value of the nonprofit marketplace and social services, we have to say no, you're not going to pay me that little to pay my people. They're worth more. The things they're curing in society is worth more. And so being able to stand up and even, you know, in our board strategic meeting, priority number one raising salaries of the team members that we serve because of the macro costs of where we exist, and taking that approach and taking the risk to say our industry is valuable, our people that we work with every day is valuable, and they're not sometimes in the room, as the CEOs and the deputy directors are in the room, but, trust me, what you say in that room does get out, and so it's knowing that we're there and we have to add value to our industry.

Speaker 3: 33:57

Marisol, you got anything else you want to add. Yes, I want to layer on that, really leaning into the positionality that we hold, to give permission to say no, permission to say no to the additional project, or whether that's permission to say no to the additional duty, or whether that's permission to say no to. You know that low-hanging fruit, sometimes because we know it's going to come at a high cost for our folks. But so often in mission-driven work people bypass their cues and bypass their indicators that they need to take a break or that they need to pause. And as leaders, we have such influence in giving permission for folks to say no and to actualize it.

Speaker 1: 34:46

Okay, I'm like, I feel like this was just made for the three of y'all to be the threading that's happening, the way that I feel like there's hope emerging. I want to open it up to questions, but before that, I want to go ahead and get our one good things out here, because y'all so much is stirring up in me. I know that each of y'all probably have had a moment in this conversation to think, man, this just connects and the room here is calling out for this. You know, I see so many people being vulnerable, meeting the vulnerability of each of y'all in this conversation, which I'm so grateful for. So I want to ask you for a one good thing and then, if we have a question, there's your chance. Pop in the Q and a, you get to have a question with these incredible panelists right here. But, maya, I'll start with you what's a piece of advice, something that's bubbled up as a hack, or a thought that's clear right now for you?

Speaker 4: 35:40

now for you. I as the um the for the speakers backstage, there was a countdown clock and I just decided to like take a breath right now breathing, and I think that was like the first time today. I like sat down and just like took a breath Right.

Speaker 4: 35:49

So I would just encourage us I mean, we can put a countdown on it all the time, but just I, my one good thing is the gratitude to y'all to think, to remember, to breathe, and I feel like we don't. I don't do that enough, and so, if that can help anyone else, just take a moment, ground themselves, take a breath. That is what I needed today.

Speaker 1: 36:17

I'll say take a breath. That is what I needed today. Thank you for that. My friend Lindsay invited us right out of the gate at her keynote first thing this morning into 90 seconds and it felt like nine years, like it shows how much we rarely create the pause. So I appreciate that instructive. My friend Kirk, what would you have to add?

Speaker 5: 36:32

I think my, my one good thing is see value in people even when the data says they're failing, you know, even when the normalcy of what we do indicates that maybe they're challenged, because I work with some of the most unique people on this planet. I work with some of the most unique people on this planet and being able to sit with someone in their moment of failure builds heroes.

Speaker 5: 37:05

I have seen it over and over again where people thought they couldn't do are now leading, and all they took was sitting in that moment for 10 minutes. It's not that hard.

Speaker 1: 37:22

So beautiful, my friend. Thank you for that Narasal. One good thing.

Speaker 3: 37:26

Yes, I'm really walking away. And Kurt, you put this so beautifully with beating our staff to kindness, and the invitation is to beat ourselves to kindness, and so often the inner self-talk or the inner story or the inner demons perhaps are so fast, and so the invitation here is in order to be able to show up and show kindness to others.

Speaker 1: 37:55

We need to do that work too, and so, starting with ourselves first, I hope you love this conversation as much as we did to hear the rest of the live Q and a from this panel and all impact up replays. Join the impact uprising membership for just $30 a month.

Speaker 2: 38:09

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Speaker 1: 38:21

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