563. How to Manage Change in a Rapidly Evolving World - Mia Henry, Taneshia Nash Laird, Tammy Tibbetts, and Shaun Lee

Meet Mia, Taneshia, Tammy + Shaun. In this Responsive Nonprofit Summit replay, our expert panel explores how to manage change within the nonprofit sector, especially as the need to adapt and innovate grows. They share practical strategies, case studies, and lessons learned. While 'managing change' can present challenges, we view it as an opportunity. Join us to discover how embracing transformation can unlock potential within your teams and missions.

💡Learn 

• The importance of creating a culture of empowerment 
• The role of safety when it comes to taking risks
• Tips for open and transparent communications

Today’s Guests

• Mia Henry, Founder + CEO, Freedom Lifted
• Taneshia Nash Laird, Inaugural President & CEO, Greater Roxbury Arts & Cultural Center
• Tammy Tibbetts, Co-Founder + CEO, She's the First
• Shaun Lee, Co-Founder + CEO, 6 Levers

Episode Highlights

• Mindsets around change (2:25)
• Hallmarks of healthy cultures  (9:00)
• Justice-centered leadership (11:50)
• How to communicate about change (17:35)
• Creating a culture of stability + innovation  (24:15)
• Power dynamics that prevent change (29:30)
• One Good Thing (35:00) 

For more information + episode details visit: weareforgood.com/episode/563.

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Chapters

• 0:53 Embracing Change Mindsets in Nonprofits
• 5:40 Empowering Nonprofits Through Justice-Centered Leadership
• 18:55 Navigating Organizational Transitions With Open Communication
• 25:31 Fostering Psychological Safety and Innovation
• 39:24 Building Community in Nonprofits

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:53

Hey, I'm John.

Speaker 2: 0:54

And I'm Becky.

Speaker 1: 0:55

And this is the we Are For Good podcast.

Speaker 2: 0:58

Nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world.

Speaker 1: 1:07

We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an impact uprising.

Speaker 2: 1:16

So welcome to the good community. We're nonprofit professionals, philanthropists, world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.

Speaker 1: 1:26

So let's get started. Hey Becky, how's it going?

Speaker 2: 1:30

You know I'm just sitting here thinking about change and how this is hard for our sector to sometimes manage change and we're going to be talking about that. So we gathered this powerhouse group of experts on this panel during the Responsive Nonprofit Summit to inspire you and your teams today to lean into the transformation that can be unlocked within yourself and in your teams when you start to lean into managing change.

Speaker 1: 1:56

And I mean what an honor to be surrounded by such incredible humans on this panel. And they're no strangers to the we Are For Good podcast. So I'm going to introduce you to Tanisha Nash Laird. She's the inaugural president and CEO at the Greater Roxbury Arts and Cultural Center, and Mia Henry, who's the founder and CEO of Freedom Lifted. And Tammy Tibbetts, the co-founder and CEO of she's the First. And Sean Lee, our friend in Austin, who's the co-founder and CEO of Six Lovers.

Speaker 1: 2:21

Y'all, buckle up, don't sleep on this convo. There's so much here to take away. We talk a lot. I mean, today's going to be talking about change and, before we really get into any of the practical, tactical things, we really believe fundamentally that we have to transform from within. And I want to start talking today about mindsets, of how we even perceive change. How do we think through it? What are some healthier ways and healthier mindsets around that? I want to kick it to the group to really tone set for this conversation. Where's a good starting place? I mean, you're surrounded by evolved leaders. You're pouring in on your free time today or maybe not even your free time to be part of this responsive summit. If you're gathered here, how can we really tone set for this conversation of what mindsets are required really to step through change in a really beautiful way. Who wants to kick us off with that? Who looks most eager?

Speaker 2: 3:08

Sean get in here, let's see what you got to say Thanks for having me.

Speaker 3: 3:12

It's such an honor to be here with y'all. What an incredible panel and love you guys. So thanks so much for having me. I think a couple of mindsets come to mind this idea of how do we meet fundamental human needs and how do we think about that through change and the value and connection that has to change. And then the other one would be how do we begin to move upstream and think about the underlying systems that we work within? So I'll just unpack those just really briefly here.

Speaker 3: 3:40

This idea, I think, the connection between, like, fundamental human needs and change. If we accept this idea that we in the workplace, we all have underlying needs such as a need for contribution, a need for clarity, a need for belonging and connection. We all have those to some degree, but they vary based on our unique wiring and who we are as individuals. It's important to consider those through change initiatives, right? So how do we think about like just take contribution and clarity, for example, the degree to which people have voice and are able to give input towards the particular change, and how does that? How will that increase the likelihood of success in it?

Speaker 3: 4:17

So that first one is just around.

Speaker 3: 4:19

How do we consider fundamental human needs as relates to change initiatives? The second one is around going upstream and and this really means like, how do we look beyond surface issues that we're facing, just like in, in, in in a void, maybe a quick, instinctual, just kind of gut reaction to like well, this issue is because this thing that I see right in front of me and begin to embrace a mindset of moving upstream, to seek the deeper issue right, and when we do that, we might have a better idea of the strength of our systems, right, and the degree to which they're ready for change, such as do we have a way in which we set priorities that allow us to understand our capacity? Do we have an agreement as a team on how we navigate tension and conflict that we will inevitably hit when we go through change, and how do we go about working through that through a particular change initiative? So, thinking about that as our awareness of our systems and how we tend to them as we think about the change that we want to take on.

Speaker 2: 5:21

Right out of the gate, sean, giving us the deep existential things we do need to be talking about. Mia, I just think you are such a brilliant advisor on this and I think you just speak with so much calmness and confidence like get in here, talk to us about your mindset, where you think somebody should start.

Speaker 4: 5:34

Well, you know. Thank you also for having me here. I'm so glad to see you both again and to be on this awesome panel.

Speaker 4: 5:40

You know I'm always talking about power, so to me, when I heard Sean speaking, I'm hearing. You know what does it look like to make sure that everyone has power right, and when we feel powerful, we can manage change. Right, we can handle change in ways that are confident, in ways that are removing not just blocks and barriers for other people but the ones that we sometimes set for ourselves. We're able to embrace power as something that everyone should have. Then we're able to see it as abundant and that is, I think, a huge mindset shift for folks.

Speaker 4: 6:19

A lot of people come to me, you know, problem first. Often they know I talk about power all the time, so they're just like what are we going to do about power dynamics? Right, and implicit in that is that there's an issue, right, there's a power struggle and, especially when we think about fundraising and we're thinking about power of the donors, sometimes we just assign too much power to the donors, right? If we don't feel powerful in ourselves, we may feel intimidated by the wealthy and underestimate those who are not wealthy, right, and their ability to give. So just really being able to think about power as available to everyone and that we're able to center our communities, even in our conversations with donors. I think that's so, so key. So for me it's all justice centered leadership and all aspects of nonprofits require that we are always thinking about power, but not in a way that we're thinking about the power struggle, but we're thinking about the power possibilities, you know.

Speaker 2: 7:27

I just reoriented my brain. Anybody else out there? Thank you for that, Tanisha. I see you nodding. What else you got?

Speaker 5: 7:33

Well, you know it's interesting. If Mia's thing is about power, I'm always about let's lean on mission and let's figure out how we can align on that. That seems to be the thing that I always go to first, that we should be sort of mission driven, and that's why I was sort of nodding around. If we can align our power around the mission, then we're good.

Speaker 2: 7:56

That simplicity, tammy, round us out what you got.

Speaker 6: 7:59

Well, I love this topic. I think it's such a courageous conversation and I'm thrilled to see the geographic diversity we have in the room in the chat. So thank you for including me. I think when I think about change, there's kind of like two types of change. There's the change that you initiate and lead, and then the change that happens to you, and of course the latter is scarier and makes us more fearful. But that change that you can initiate and lead I think that's what Mia is getting at Like that's when you have the power and you can have more of an abundant abundance mindset. So whenever I'm in a situation where I feel that change is scary because it's happening to me, I try to reframe and try to switch gears into a place where myself or the members on my team have power to actually make decisions and try to turn it into a positive experience, even if at the outset it might look like a negative one.

Speaker 2: 9:05

I'm not at all surprised that Tammy turned it around about empowerment.

Speaker 2: 9:08

That's what you do literally every day with girls and I so appreciate this conversation. I love that somebody's already putting a quote card in there from Mia. Can somebody turn that into a meme so we can start talking about? When we feel powerful, we can manage change? But I want to get into what does a healthy culture look like? And I want to pitch this question to you, sean, because I got to give a shout out to Alyssa and the chat, who was brave enough to say you know what I think my culture, if I'm going to rate it zero to 10, we're at about a two to three, and I think that's pretty consistent with what we hear across the board. And we want to know what are sort of those hallmarks, sean, like. What are those through lines of organizations that do have healthy cultures? What are those sort of tenants that they have nestled deep down and embedded into them? We'd love to hear your thoughts on this.

Speaker 3: 9:54

Yeah, well, I mean, I think, similar to where Tanisha went around mission. I think we first and foremost say, organizations that have a real clear sense of identity are ones that are going to have more conviction and come from a place of stability when they need to navigate change. And also just when you think about, like, what is the foundational elements of healthy culture? And one of the things that we found in our work, and you know sorry, I apologize if I say we, but I'm part of a team and it's just sort of in my vernacular- Look at him collective power.

Speaker 3: 10:21

Keep going yes.

Speaker 2: 10:22

It's okay.

Speaker 3: 10:24

These ideas are not completely my own, so that's why I say we, and so you know if we've heard of this idea of mission drift, like many of us probably have, we think often that's because mission is really not quite enough right. Many of us probably have. We think often that's because mission is really not quite enough right. I mean the idea and ethos of mission certainly is, and like the idea of being bought into it. But when we think of, like what else might we need to be clear on, in addition to mission, like maybe the way in which we accomplish our mission, or values or our principles for how we work with each other, or the handful of measurables that indicate if we're going to be successful in accomplishing our mission, in a way that maybe provides more clarity. And one member of our team often says it's like a bat signal that goes out right and people say, like I want to be a part of that. Right, I want to. That's so clear, your identity is so clear. Like I really want to be a part of that or I don't. That's great too right. Like it's great too right, like that I'm so clear that maybe you thought you would have been a part of this and it turns out that you, that maybe you weren't so they weren't the right fit or for for different reasons. So clarity of identity is is a great place to start.

Speaker 3: 11:26

And then I think the other one would just be just tending. I mean, I kind of mentioned this already in the first one, but just the the intentionality it's into which we think about tending to the systems that we work within, right, oftentimes it's sort of a meta concept, but it just comes to like this idea that there are aspects of how we work that we interact with all the time, like how we meet, think about how we run one-on-ones, how we work through conflict, and for most of us in teams they're just sort of running on default, right, and we don't seem to. I mean, mia, to your point about power. We don't seem to acknowledge and understand that we actually have the power in many cases to adjust those things if we don't like how they're going. So it starts with awareness of those systems and a willingness to step into it and ask questions and say, hey, there's got to be a better way to do this. How can we do that together?

Speaker 1: 12:17

I mean this is a good segue, because I want to kick it to Mia specifically, because I think you talk about justice-centered leadership and I think this is a great unlock when we start talking about a lot of the inequities or the power dynamics or imbalances that are holding us back. So I want to kick it to you to say how can this approach to leadership, this justice-centered leadership really provide this unlock to organizations?

Speaker 4: 12:44

Maybe define it and then let's jump off with that. Yeah, I hate to sound like a broken record, but justice-centered leadership, justice-centered leadership. You know it's about power, you know, and it's about centering it and all of our conversations, and to what Sean was just saying, in the way that we do our work. Right Again, seeing power is abundant in the way we run our meetings, in the way that we deliver towards our mission Of course you know.

Speaker 2: 13:11

I'm so glad you're here. We love the dogs.

Speaker 4: 13:15

All morning, you know right now, but yeah, and it looks at it. Just we have to look at it and how we show up personally, our workplace cultures to what Sean is speaking to, and our policies and practices right, and so I always think about it. It's the culture. The workplace culture is all the things we do. They're not written down right, and the policies and practices are all the things we do that are. And so how are we looking at power at every level, our own experience, experiences with power, and how that shows up in how we assert ourselves and when we're able to ask for help, right? How we're able to create cultures at work that are both compassionate and accountable, and how we create policies that are both they protect people and empower people right, and so constantly asking those questions. That, to me, is where we're moving towards justice, because justice starts with the self right. Revolution starts with us, and so it's so important that we interrogate where our relationship, our experiences with power impact our decision making in the workplace. So, if we use a race-based example, because a lot of people think about when I'm talking about justice, they do think about the identity, of how people come in racial identity. There's many, many other identities. We can talk about all of them, right, but just using, if we go by a racial identity, if a person is a white leader and they are really looking at power and how they show up and how they are leading, how they show up personally in relationship with others and how they are leading around culture and policies, it means that they are embracing and not afraid of diversity, right, because they don't feel threatened by it. Right, this is again managing change in a changing world. The fear of diversity is coming from a fear of change. Right, the the person is able to manage and be managed by people of color, right, and they don't underestimate, as I was saying before, anyone's ability or willingness to give based on their identity. If they're a person of color and they have positional power, they're not afraid of using it, you know, and they're not. Also, they don't feel like they have to do everything perfectly, you know.

Speaker 4: 15:33

Speaking, speaking like a person of color who was in, who had positional power in multiple organizations, I struggled often in in making sure that I wasn't afraid to use the power I had when I had it, not afraid to mess up right, because I knew I could ask for help. Right, but because I was raised in very much a way that you lose face right when we ask for help and they may doubt me as a person of color and my ability to lead if I'm not showing up perfectly all the time and I also, you know again, know when to assert my authority and not feeling like I can't confront someone right because I'm afraid of being undermined or underestimated. So that's just one example of how you know individual leaders can honestly reflect on their identities, their upbringing, their opportunities that they have now, you know, to lead through the lens of power and we want them to have the strength and resilience to lead through change. It really requires that we're constantly interrogating how we understand power and how we use it.

Speaker 2: 16:42

I'm so glad you brought up fear, because I feel like if there was a little bit of a banner that we accidentally wave in this sector, it is that scarcity that is always holding us back and if we're operating in fear, if we're leading through fear, then naturally there's going to be voices that are not going to be included, and I love this idea. We've talked with Tulane Montgomery about proximate leadership and how do you have an awareness of how your leadership can bring people in and how it can turn people off, and how do you use what you have and the power that you have and how do you share it? We were getting into that a little bit with collective power. I think that was so strong and I want to like sort of shift the lens and the conversation just a little bit to how do we manage change internally.

Speaker 2: 17:29

And you four are all on this panel because the way that you show up in your businesses, in life, in your organizations, you are such brilliant leaders that communicate so well. You lead with dignity, you lead with your values and I want to kick this to you first Tammy, because I think she's the First does such a brilliant job with global communication. I hear from so many different people at so many different levels within the organization. In fact, somebody reached out to me last week and said you still want to run the New York City Marathon, for she's the First. It is on my bucket list, tammy. I swear I'm going to do it at some point, but I love that it was somebody I'd never met before, and so I want you to talk just about, like, how you approach communication with your team, with your partners, with your board members, with those people who surround your organization. Talk to us about how that really helps you manage change and culture within your organization.

Speaker 6: 18:25

Sure, well, I'll focus on internal communications and I would say, in general I strive to be as open and transparent as possible and I'll give a couple examples. In the unfortunate position of having to cut our salaries, the staff salaries, but with the intention, and we did restore their salaries and pay that difference back when we got on the other side of it, but I remember, like with my co-founder, kristen, having to tell the staff that their salaries were going to be reduced and manage that kind of communications in a way that would not, you know, create fear or hardship. And what we did is, every week we would give the staff kind of a high level update on the organization's financial health, smart, and how we were doing, and then very clear like specific dates and milestones of when we would be restoring that their salary. It wasn't just like you know, unfortunately we have to reduce your salary and hopefully one day we can pay it back. It was like there was accountability that we as leadership had into them and I think that was a situation that we were able to actually keep the staff trusting us and invested in the organization.

Speaker 6: 20:12

Where I actually probably took the having open communication a little too far is on the subject of leadership transitions, I think this is something everyone especially who is a founder of an organization, I hope is thinking about succession planning, because leadership is meant to be shared and I hope founders aren't like holding a death grip on their organizations.

Speaker 6: 20:26

I think it's healthy to talk about leadership change.

Speaker 6: 20:37

However, I have learned it also freaks people out to have a beloved leader, a trusted leader, to think that they will no longer be there.

Speaker 6: 20:41

And, as I think about my own succession planning, being almost 15 years into leading the organization, last year I think I spoke a little too openly about my plans and hopes regarding my own future transition and I realized that you know, it's actually important to sometimes hold certain details back until you have more of a set plan and instead kind of reassure people, whether board members, your staff, on what the ultimate outcome is that you're striving for. That should be aligned with the mission, as Tanisha said, and with the organization's values, kind of let them know what the process will be like so that they're reassured that their voices will be heard, but not kind of spill out too many uncertainties too soon. So that's kind of the balance that with internal communications that I try to strike and being very open and transparent, but not oversharing to the point that those who don't have as much information as I do would, you know, lead them to be worried or anxious.

Speaker 2: 21:51

I feel so seen as a resident overshare in that, and you know that I am. Is there anyone else that wants to jump in on this conversation and kind of pick up the ball where Tammy left off?

Speaker 5: 22:01

Yeah, I mean, I think everything that she said is amazing. What I was processing during this conversation is that a lot of my biggest lessons came during a crisis. That was the pandemic as well, whether it was figuring out how to innovate during that time, but also making just telling, but involving them in the solutioning right. So whether we're talking about the innovating and having the team being involved in the innovating, but also on the communicating side with the stakeholders, helping them identify what the problems are and helping them and partnering with them on the solutioning of it as well, I think the so the one thing I want people who are watching this panel to think about because we've sort of mentioned it in different ways is just don't operate out of fear, right. Like fear is sort of the thing that is going to totally derail you. I've seen it many times in organizations and for what we do, it's kind of I can understand why fear emerges in so many different ways, but I think if we are communicate and work together, that we can overcome a lot of that.

Speaker 5: 23:27

And I think it's funny, tammy, what you were saying about secession. I had that same and I wasn't a founder, but I've always, when I enter into organizations, try to have that conversation and I think because my history is going into organizations where I'm essentially turning them around that the idea that the person that helped turn it around is now talking about leaving creates a source of fear. When it's like no, you got this, you got this, you got this, so that's something else, I haven't quite figured out how to approach without it getting all like what do you mean? What do you mean? And I'm like no, but this is a healthy organization is thinking about secession. So, anyway, communicate, communicate, but also make that a two-way street.

Speaker 1: 24:16

Gosh, thank y'all for the vulnerability in the room too, the safety that you're just sharing these stories and kind of bringing us behind the curtain, so to speak, because I think it's so helpful just to verbalize these things and talk about them. And I want to talk about this idea of creating safety, creating stability, because, you know, at the Responsive Summit we're talking about all this about innovation, we're talking about change, we're talking about managing change. It feels like we have to start from a place of stability. How do you build that? You know, like, what are some hallmarks of that? And I can kick it to we had you down, tanisha, but we could go anywhere with this one. I'm curious what your thoughts are.

Speaker 5: 24:51

Stability. You're saying how to create that.

Speaker 1: 24:53

Like how do you balance the needs of creating a stable place but also like having a culture of innovation and trying stuff and changing and evolving. You know it's kind of a tension to manage.

Speaker 5: 25:04

So I actually I'll just speak briefly, since I spoke so much just now that I actually think it's not only mission driven but it's also again stakeholder engaged Right, but also being financially responsible as well Right, but having that room to innovate, I mean, I think again during I'll just give concrete because I think that's most helpful for people. During the pandemic, newark Symphony Hall, like a lot of places, we were shut down due to the governor's order. We could not actually do public things and so we were trying to figure out how we could make money and we had all, before the pandemic we had rented out to film and television a little bit, and during that time period we just sort of went all in. But our mission really is about the residents of Newark University, which is a predominantly Black and Brown community, and it just occurred to us that, well, you know, production assistants, that's like the entry level, because we had this bigger mission of getting more people into the IATSE union. But this production assistance, that's like an entry level thing. And we created a boot camp that allowed people from Newark to go to the bootcamp.

Speaker 5: 26:28

Through the bootcamp, but we innovated in a way that was responsible. We got other partners, we sold them on this idea of supporting and paying people as we went through it and we engaged the stakeholders again around, is this something that would be helpful for the community? And I'm really proud that, even though we're through the pandemic, that that is something that was innovative for the organization, that really helped us generate more revenue because we also place people onto those productions, but it essentially was also financially responsible. It was something that we figured out how to do so these crises, and we were figuring out during that process of how can we take that crisis but also look at mission and just adapt adapt to our new situation. So those are some of the lessons that I've adapted. So basically, mission-driven, stakeholder involved and adapting.

Speaker 2: 27:27

Excellent. Anyone else want to get in here? Sean, I see you kind of on the precipice there.

Speaker 3: 27:31

Yeah, I mean, I think, John, you mentioned the psychological safety and I think just maybe to connect that to innovation a bit here, you know, and for those I'm assuming we're all pretty familiar with the idea of psychological safety. But maybe one extra point just to bring in is that there was this pretty well-known study that Google did called Project Aristotle, about what makes an effective team, and they found that the number one factor of an effective team is a foundation of psychological safety, right? And they were wondering what makes effective leadership? Is leadership even required? The degree to which dynamic leadership plays a role in the success of teams. They actually found it's these more team oriented things that play a role over like a dynamic leader.

Speaker 3: 28:14

And but, you know, as, as people in teams and working in collaborative environments, and the question becomes then like, what do I do day in, day out to either like build or or build psychological safety, or what am I, maybe in an unknowing way, doing to break psychological safety, right?

Speaker 3: 28:31

And so I think a handful of things that we've thought about and we and we coach leaders through is like, like really simple things, like think about your ratio of talk time, right, if somebody has an idea of like they want to bring a big idea but there's no space for the big idea because you're talking all the time, right, you know? Or how you maybe respond to news that isn't great or not what you expected. You have a visceral reaction that maybe makes the person think well, I don't know if I'm going to bring that idea next time or offer that dissenting opinion next time. So there's like little things we can do that actually lead to or break psychological safety. That's very connected to the our ability to innovate, right, because we have to hear these ideas in order for the seed to germinate, for them to turn into something bigger. And that starts with the environment we're working within and the degree to which we're tending to those ideas to have a chance to come out.

Speaker 2: 29:19

I feel the vibrant, thriving organizations. I feel like the potential is coming out because there is so much under the iceberg. If you can create that space of safety, you would have never thought that somebody in your organization would have an interest in an area or have a skill set in a different area. And I had this question and I think it's probably the pink elephant in the room, mia, I'm going to kick it to you because it's something that we are for good gets all the time, I think, when you're having these conversations about how do we reform the sector, how do we get, how do we become more modern, how will we embrace something that's different?

Speaker 2: 29:53

One of the biggest pushbacks that we get from people within our community is I believe in this change, but I can't get my leaders on board. I can't get my board to get on board with this thinking, and so I want you to talk about little bit, about the power dynamics at work for those individuals, and I'm sure there are many that are listening right now in the community and in the chat saying I want to run full force at this, but I don't have a leadership that supports that yet. What the heck do I do? Speak to us, mia, well, you know I want to.

Speaker 4: 30:27

I'm going to definitely address that and I want to just affirm what I heard Tanisha and Sean saying about. And and, tammy, when you were talking about succession planning and this idea of creating stability, I think we're only able to, we have to, we have to. What I hear is give people opportunities to small opportunities to take small risk Right, and so we want to balance. You know, we don't want if we, if there's psychological safety without like risk taking, that it's too much, too much comfort, right. If there's too much risk taking and not psychological safety, it feels very scary, and so we want to make sure that people have an opportunity to to drive, while, you know, alongside leadership. So when Tammy is talking about leaving, she's already taken her, you know, colleagues to funder meetings. She's already shared facilitation of internal meetings right. We're already putting people in front of the communities, right, tanisha? You're putting other people in your organization in front of the communities you serve, so they don't just see you as the only leader. So if you leave, then everything falls apart. We're always pushing people just a little bit outside of their comfort zone because if they have that psychological safety, they will feel like they can take risks, and I think that's really important, that a sense of stability is both feeling seen and heard and also confident to take risk and to be seen and heard by people outside of the organization. Even so, I just wanted to affirm that because, as leaders, we can't go alone to our boards and change something right, like the whole team has to be behind it. And so oftentimes when I'm doing work with board of directors in particular, and leaders of organizations, I like to create agendas that allow for storytelling and role plays right. Give them opportunity to again tell stories about their relationships with power right and give them opportunities to act out worst case scenarios.

Speaker 4: 32:34

Really, just address the fears head on, because all of the resistance comes from fear. That's where it comes from. So we have to give people an opportunity to share those fears. If you decide that your mission or the way you're delivering your mission is going to be justice centered, right and the board is flinching, then let's ask them why are you flinching?

Speaker 4: 32:59

What do you think is going to happen? What are we afraid of? And let them act it out. You be the person you're afraid of, or the community you're afraid of, or the donor you're afraid of. What would they say? What would they do? How can we practice responses to that? Let's look at the worst case scenario and let's look at what are the other possibilities. Right, give people the opportunities to just play it all out in the safety Right Of their own teams and communities, so that when they are faced with with change, with resistance and with really straight up obstacles and opposition which is what a lot of organizations that I'm working with are dealing with right now that they are confident because they've seen and thought through it before and they have each other's backs.

Speaker 5: 33:49

One thing that I had to learn as a leader because I was being confronted with a lot of resistance with the organization that I was leading. It had been failing for so many years that now it went from failing to abundant and it was difficult because I had the same governance structure and people. And I remember when I was saying, okay, we're now going to be paying our ticket takers $15 an hour, and there was all this resistance like no, we can't do that. And it was very shocking to me. And finally I asked someone I said, well, what is it? And he said, well, you know, we never were in a position to do that before, and so it was like a fear.

Speaker 5: 34:34

So, and that's when I realized, oh, a lot of their things where I thought were big pieces of resistance, it really was fear and I had to uncover and unpack that and we had to talk it through and I had to explain no, it's only they're not just sitting around and getting paid, it's only if there's an event that they're getting paid and that money that's coming in for that event is what covers it up. But it was unpacking what the resistance was and it was making the space for the conversation and I think that's a theme, right that word that we have here, that it has to be a dialogue. It covers that story.

Speaker 1: 35:06

What a beautiful story, and I think you know it's something that we have been lifting on the podcast this season specifically is that we're whole humans in this work. I mean, we're all bringing a lot of different pieces. We obviously all have our personal lives and that intersectional piece of that of how we show up. We're bringing a lot of these things and these scarcity mindsets, maybe your beliefs that we have about money or power or whatever, into the workspace too. So I love that we're going there.

Speaker 1: 35:38

I'm grieving that we've got like a four minute countdown timer staring me down. So what we're going to do is you can't hang with us without giving us your one good thing, and I know this. Conversations begin to stoke a lot of thoughts and maybe things that are bubbling up inside of you that you want to share. So, as we round out, I want to go around and give you a platform to say what's your one good thing around this topic, or just something that you feel like would speak to the tone in the room today. And who wants to go first? Sean's already nodding. Sean, I'll start with you, okay.

Speaker 3: 36:01

Yeah, maybe like one portable tactic in this, when we think about how to go about driving change. Is this idea of propose an experiment versus describe and defend as a way to build buy-in All right, so how do I come like open-handed this is hard for leaders, by the way like, right, we could, we're passionate and full of a lot of like big ideas, and. But how do we back off that a little bit and just say, hey, I have an idea that maybe we'll help this thing and maybe in like, say it like this, like you know, I'm I'm not a hundred percent sure if it will, but maybe we could give it a shot, right, and what do you think? And then, like, work the ideas the team has into before you move forward, as opposed to coming with like the full armor of everything that you want to say and trying to convince people to get on board, because you might get compliance with that but you won't get people really believing in it.

Speaker 1: 36:45

Tammy, do you want to go next?

Speaker 6: 36:47

Yes, I would say, do what Mia said in terms of playing out that worst case scenario and how you would react to it. Then ask yourself how many times has that worst case scenario happened versus how many times have the beyond my wildest dreams scenario happened? And chances are there are going to be more cases of things happening beyond your wildest dreams. So just remember to trust your track record and that when the bad or unfortunate things happen, you have within you the strength to figure it out.

Speaker 1: 37:23

Loving this so much. Oh, my gosh, tanisha.

Speaker 5: 37:26

So you know, we didn't really get a chance to talk about resilience. I know that was something that you so thoughtfully put on, so I want to kind of bring that up because I think sustainable change can only happen if resilience is present. And again, this is a lesson during the pandemic that I needed to model resilience and self-care, because what I found was my staff was working way more hours, believe it or not, during the pandemic than before. So, modeling that resilience and self-care, providing them support you all heard before how I gave them therapists, literally but also to celebrate the progress right, we haven't talked about that, that a lot of the success, you have to celebrate it. We're so running and win, win, win, win, win, without celebrating and standing into that, and that's something that I had to learn not only learn, but learn and model for the team as well.

Speaker 2: 38:26

We Are For Good is still learning how to do that. So thank you for calling us out and calling us to do more of that. Mia, round us out here, my friend.

Speaker 4: 38:39

Well, you know, the issues that we're facing today are just unprecedented, and I want to first just give everyone, you know, encouragement and warmth and affirmation, because I know everyone is truly doing the best that they can With that. I don't want anyone to feel isolated in your leadership. I want everyone to have the relationships and the confidence to see each other as partners, not as competitors, and so I really believe that this always requires that we have honest conversations about power. So my one good thing is to make space in your organization to openly talk about power, our experience with it and how we create a world where everyone has more of it.

Speaker 2: 39:17

Because, leading back to your change, or your quote, that is, what drives the change is when we share that power. And I just I'm going back to our first conversation on this stage today and Scott Curran says what a time to be a non, a nonprofit. Yes, we are living through an unprecedented time in history, but those who are going to reach out and seize this opportunity, they're going to bring others in. I mean, julie, if you can drop the we Are For Good community link, please do, because what I want to say to each of you is that no one can do this alone and this has to be an evolution. It has to be an evolving conversation. It's an evolving journey for all of us. Find your community, julie's dropping ours in there, we would love for you to have you there, but please find a community wherever you are. Find people to bounce off your ideas, your fears, to talk about these conversations, because that's how we're going to evolve as human beings.

Speaker 2: 40:13

You, four extraordinary human beings, are doing such incredible work. I thank you for not only joining this conversation, but for the way that you show up on the daily to do what you do. Thank you for everything that you've done and we want to make sure that we kick everybody to the main stage. We're going to have final comments today. For the day, I want to give a shout out to our sponsors, microsoft Feather, community, boost, one Cause, classy Windfall and Amphil, who made this event free and accessible to you. Go, create some stability, some accessibility, talk about those power dynamics and y'all encircle each other, because we need every one of us to power through this. Thank you, my friends, for joining us, take care.