545. Human-Centered Leadership + The Power of Adaptability: Thriving Through Organizational Transitions - Kamilah Martin

Meet Kamilah. She’s successfully led and stabilized internal teams during several CEO and Executive Director transitions, known for her ability to heal fractured teams and lead with humanity. She’s sharing insights from her experience leading those teams with adaptability and curiosity.  Tune in for expert advice on fostering thriving, equitable cultures through human-centered leadership. This episode is for anyone looking to create healthier, more resilient nonprofit workplaces🫶

💡 Learn

• All about Human-Centered Leadership
• How to Understand + Meet the Needs of Your Team
• Ways to Thrive Through Organizational Transitions

Today’s Guest
Kamilah Martin, Founder + CEO, Katalyst

For more information + episode details visit: weareforgood.com/episode/545.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 3:06

Hey, I'm John.

Speaker 2: 3:07

And I'm Becky.

Speaker 1: 3:08

And this is the we Are For Good podcast.

Speaker 2: 3:11

Nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world.

Speaker 1: 3:20

We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an impact uprising.

Speaker 2: 3:28

So welcome to the good community. We're nonprofit professionals, philanthropists, world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.

Speaker 1: 3:39

So let's get started, becky, what's happening?

Speaker 2: 3:43

I am so excited to talk to our guests today. I got to give a huge shout out and thank you to Jess Campbell for referring Camila Martin to the we Are For Good community. We have had just a little bit of time to visit with her, but we have dug into her work and if you are someone who is really trying to work through fractured teams, maybe toxic work environments, and really get back into center, we're going to be talking about the power of adaptability. Center we're going to be talking about the power of adaptability. Today we're going to talk about human-centered leadership and how to thrive through organizational transitions. I think this is something that happens so much in nonprofit, where we see leadership turnover and it just takes anxiety through the roof for all of us. And today we're going to quiet your mind. Camila's coming in, she's going to give us ease and she is going to give us hope for what could be an incredible transition that leads to thriving, healthy environments.

Speaker 2: 4:39

So got to tell you a little bit about Camila and I have to tell you I had to pull your bio back some, Camila, because there is so much amazing content in here, but she is an entrepreneur, an artist much amazing content in here, but she is an entrepreneur, an artist, a mother and the successful and multi-passionate founder and CEO of Catalyst. That's Catalyst with a K, and she's got 20 plus years of nonprofit and executive experience where she is supporting and buoying organizations as an interim during leadership transitions and she runs this brilliant, award-winning, award-winning, go you mastermind community called Catalyst Nonprofit Consultant Mastermind and it just really offers this safe and empowering space for black women and other women of color who are pivoting from W2 nonprofit employees to being independent consultants. So I just really value, when you look at her work, the way she has this profound understanding of organizational dynamics and just this passion for advancing equity and human-centered leadership. Those are shared values of ours here in the we Are For Good community as well, and so she's really worked at the intersection of humanitarian and conservation efforts to youth activism and leadership development, both on a global and a domestic scale.

Speaker 2: 5:51

So I want you all to know that there's a beautiful quote in here that Camila has successfully led and stabilized internal teams during several CEO and executive director transition because and this is the quote she is known for her innate ability to heal fractured teams and lead from a space of humanity. So we are so jazzed that she is in our house. She has worked with a myriad of impressive people. She has a myriad of impressive awards, but we just want to get to know the heart of this incredible human so we can talk about how to heal and how to thrive during organizational transitions. Camila, welcome to our space. We are so excited that you're here.

Speaker 3: 6:33

Oh, my goodness, who is this Camila person? I got to meet this lady, she sounds amazing.

Speaker 2: 6:38

I need to send her like a Taylor Swift BFF, like necklace and bracelet. So we're just thrilled that you're here, and before we get into the work, we always want to get to know the human first, and so we'd love for you to just kind of take us back. Take us back to little Camila, Talk about her heart and her work and what led her to do what you're doing today.

Speaker 3: 6:59

So first, thank you so much, becky and John. I'm really thrilled to be here and just I mean that just warmed my heart to hear that I've done a lot in my life and it's really just fascinating just to hear it kind of spoken like that. So little Camila was the eldest child of three and sort of had all the characteristics of eldest daughter, probably suffering from some eldest daughter syndrome, and probably was a parent in some of that bio with the overachieving and all of that that might've come through. So she, you know I was, I was, I was called bossy, I was called Sergeant, I was always um, questioning things, always curious. I remember there was a funny story. Uh, my mom and I were in you remember the videos, the video stores like blockbuster and stuff.

Speaker 2: 7:47

So there was like a oh yeah, Hollywood video.

Speaker 3: 7:50

Yeah, totally we had a little no-name one in our neighborhood and you know it was like our family tradition where, like every Friday, my mom and my brother and my sister and I would go and pick out a movie or watch.

Speaker 1: 7:59

You're taking me back?

Speaker 3: 8:00

Yes, hey, I didn't plan to go here, but Becky's intro and great question kind of made me go back. And so you know, my mom is sitting there and she's worrying about, like the video that my dad wants to see he's not there at the time and, like you know, making sure everyone else is taken care of. And I remember she told me this story where I just stopped her and I was like I was like mom, I was like what do you want? I was like what video do you want? And I forced her to kind of take a step back and think about she's taking care of everyone else. What is it that she actually wants in this moment? And it was, and she she recalls that to this day is like her little, I don't know eight, nine-year-old daughter, like forcing her to really think about what she wanted and needed in that moment.

Speaker 3: 8:37

And I think you know that's that's. That's a really interesting story that plays out in the work that I do today and sort of how I've transitioned into an executive, you know, a CEO role of running my own company, because all of what I'm building is for, you know, particularly black and brown women who are burnt out from the traditional working system and the nonprofits and philanthropic spaces to take a step back and think about what they want for the next phases of their lives and their professional kind of careers. And so you know, little Camila was always, again, curious, really in tune and sensitive to other people's needs, but also just very much wanting to make sure that you know that we're taken care of and figuring out who we are. So I think that was that's an interesting sort of through line and theme throughout a lot of my life and career Camila and little.

Speaker 2: 9:27

Becky could have been best friends, I feel it.

Speaker 1: 9:32

Good thing, big Becky and big Camila can't be right now, we totally can.

Speaker 3: 9:37

Never too late, that's right.

Speaker 1: 9:39

I just um, I feel the care I think Becky said that word in your intro to of how you show up in spaces, because we are, for good, as entrepreneurs ourselves and trying to like figure this thing out and have no idea what we're doing. There's been moments when we've reached out to people as advisors, people that we would have never had space, but this podcast opened up doors, and it's so interesting to me that the one question they always ask is just like what do you actually want? Like what do you actually what would take care of you as a human? And so you going there at such a young age and now you get to do that to this growing community of people who are pouring into the sector in a way that feels not only just good to them but it's good for the mission too Like how beautiful, like I'm just so here for this work that you're doing. So thank you for that and thank you for having the right question at such a young age.

Speaker 1: 10:26

So I want to talk about this human-centered leadership that you're just such an expert at, and it just flows naturally from you too. So I would say, as you're an expert in these organizational dynamics, you have this passion for advancing equity and human-centered leadership. That's why we love you so much. Talk about what you're observing. What are the hallmarks of leaders that are leading in this way right now? What does that look like?

Speaker 3: 10:53

I'm going to take us back to COVID times because you know that was a really vulnerable time for a lot of people and I think a lot of people's kind of traumas in some way kind of were exhibited and, you know, displayed during that time and people sort of really had the opportunity to think about you know, how to best support their teams while they're trying to support themselves.

Speaker 3: 11:09

And I was an interim at, I think, two organizations during that period and I, you know very clearly remember the ones that do it well, are the ones that are recognizing that we're all showing up with our full selves Like we can't we're not robots, we can't turn off our you know what we dealt with this morning, where we're trying to homeschool and video school the kids, you know, and then come to work and have this board meeting.

Speaker 3: 11:33

Those who are able to really have space and create space and just come with the awareness that we're people, like we are full, full embodied, complex animals, right, that you know a lot of times just need the space to be taken care of. And I think those who ignore that are the ones that have a really, really, really challenging time managing their teams, because it's about, you know, productivity. It's about the mission. It's about blah, blah, blah, which it is like you know, we come to this nonprofit space. We have a very clear mission. There's very often strategy associated with it. We're in alignment, we're typically pretty altruistic people who wear our hearts on our sleeves and are very caring and loving, and that shows up in our work and, I think, when we're forced to kind of turn that off or put it to the side or put it behind us, particularly when we're dealing with collective challenges, as we have really probably for the last six, seven years, honestly, in various ways.

Speaker 3: 12:29

Yes, yes, but to the forefront, where it's like in our faces. You know, globally, globally almost, you know. So those, I think, that are doing it well, are those that recognize that there are full people, full complex individuals that are making up our teams and are able to somehow navigate that balance between what has to get done and taking care of their people.

Speaker 2: 12:55

I think that there's just something in the humanity of what you're talking about. It is so kind, it is building the psychological safety. I think there's a big difference between just leading and human-centered leadership, and I wonder how you would even define that for people. I think this is probably a new word and a new concept for people. How do you define it?

Speaker 3: 13:13

Oh, that's a really good question. I think human-centered leadership is kind of what I was just alluding to, that we're not piece and parcel of something. When we show up, we are complete and complex individuals and complex individuals and as much as we want to, you know, just sort of push forward and align with the things that have to be done, you have to remember that it's the people that are required to get those things done and to actually come with a sense of empathy and awareness to create the space to get to know the people. And I think that's one of the things you know, if I were to really think about it in all of the spaces where I've been leading, I mean like literally I think about it from when I was a camp counselor, you know as a teenager, to when I was, you know I was like the high school. Was I the palm coach and the palm captain of my high school dance team, you know, like as a 16, 17 year old? But all the that I've been kind of in the front of people felt safe, um, and I think it's because, um, I kind of showed up in a way that I didn't know all the answers and I gave people space to figure it out. I highlighted the things that the folks that were doing wrong before. I talked about the things that they met. They might need to improve and sort of taking the time to build that sense of trust right, because you know I'm a firm believer in that quote that things move at the speed of trust.

Speaker 3: 15:38

Taking that time to really get to know the people can kind of help you move forward with all of the challenging things that have to happen as a result of just being in a community with each other.

Speaker 3: 15:50

That's just like in families and friendships there's going to be conflict, there's going to be challenges. When there's trust there, it's a lot easier to move through that than when there's not. And so even when I step into my interim roles, literally the first couple of weeks is me just getting to know the people that are on my team. Like I don't care about necessarily what the work is, I just want to know who they are, what's motivating them. You know what challenges they might be facing, particularly with the work. But if there's other stuff that they feel like bringing up so that I can know how I need to manage that Right and I could know you know what they need to be most successful in the space that we're together. So I think you know human centered leadership is just taking the time to understand that there's a human. That's part of this equation.

Speaker 2: 16:32

Okay, that is so so good. Camila, I love that you just said that off the cuff.

Speaker 2: 16:36

That was not in our script at all but I just I am so geeked out about it because I think, as someone who's been in this work and been a manager or a leader for 20 plus years in this work, I was sent to so many trainings and it's all about the theory and the systems and how you do the thing, and I have to tell you the EQ was not a part of it. The emotional intelligence of how do we just listen to people, how do we make them feel, seen, have their value, be something that is encouraged to grow and blossom in our world. And I think that there's just a profound shift that that can create and we need it so desperately in our work. When we're so marred in systems and grind and meeting KPIs and metrics, it's like, oh my gosh, we forgot about the people. We are prioritizing the people that have the money, but we're not prioritizing the people who are actually doing the work.

Speaker 2: 17:41

So I think that's so beautiful and it's a great transition to just how do we understand and meet the needs of teams. So we think like conversations like this just aren't for leaders. So if you're listening right now and you're like, well, I'm not the leader of my department or my organization, I want to tell you. We believe everybody can be a leader in this way and the way you show up in this work. So talk to us about how we can like better understand and meet the needs of these teams, whether we're leaders, managers or not.

Speaker 3: 18:13

Yeah, I mean it all. For me it just it all starts with, you know, getting getting to know the people, having the safe space where you're comfortable to be who you are, which I know is a, is a is a challenge, and I know it's interesting. I think there was somewhere else that or maybe, like I was reading about sort of generational challenges within the workplace and you know, if I have a conversation with my mom, I remember, you know, I would be so upset by a particular situation that was happening at work and I was taking it home and like I would talk to her about it and she, she had the ability to sort of just say, leave work at work and kind of come home and you know, kind of do what needs to be done at home. So I think that's an interesting sort of generational difference. There's also kind of you know, I don't know like zodiac sign difference who knows right, like people are just different, and I think just taking the space to just understand people as individuals and it's easier with smaller teams. I think it's interesting in the nonprofit space, like I said, because we are and this is my just anecdotal kind of observation but I think we tend to be more emotionally tied to our work and so there's more effort that, I think, goes into our sector in particular, because a lot of times we're not getting paid the money to just be able to collect a check and not care. So the reason that we're doing the work is because we actually really, really care about the work.

Speaker 3: 19:37

So, you know, I just think it takes time to get people. Just have that gift and I think that's a professional development opportunity for those people on your team. If you have some sort of budget where you can, you know, put them in charge of some kind of culture aspects of your internal organization, those are the people you want. You don't want to force the tired HR VP, who you know has a lot of policy and stuff to deal with, to try and plan and you know, and slap together a happy hour pizza party, like that's not, that's not authentic. You know, genuine culture building. Find the people that folks are attracted to, because obviously they have a gift in attracting people. They perhaps enjoy getting to know people, perhaps they're just naturally empathetic or empathic, and they can, you know, they can, they can create spaces and create opportunities where other people will be excited to buy into and excited to join versus feeling like it's a chore.

Speaker 1: 20:47

Yeah, I love this because I think there's something that everybody can play into this and I want to like lift a ongoing question that comes up in our community with conversations, especially as like we're thinking about how do we shift some of the cultural pieces of our organizations. Is that we have, you know, folks that are earlier in their journey of leadership or maybe they don't feel like they have the influence today to like make a big systemic change at their organization? How can they start? Because sometimes you know you present an idea up to leadership and if you get shut down, you feel like you're going to stay small moving forward. How can you still show up and kind of start to navigate? I loved your example of finding the person you know where. Where can that small says where's like a, where's like a pilot? What does that look like for somebody that wants to start change in their area that they could just start today?

Speaker 3: 21:34

So I remember I, when I was I was interning in high school. I was at where was I? The Bethesda Agriculture Research Institute, I think that's what it was and so what, they brought together a bunch of high school kids from around the county or whatever. And I remember I wanted to get to know people. So I organized, we met at Cheesecake Factory or something. We all just sort of-.

Speaker 2: 21:56

You are such a leader, Car pulled and like a like we met at like Cheesecake Factory or something like.

Speaker 3: 21:58

We all just sort of, like you know, carpooled and went to and you know, I think, start where you are, start where you can find the spaces that you fit in, naturally, hopefully, if you have an advocate somewhere within the organization perhaps it's not your boss, I know there's probably some politics involved in maybe going outside of your immediate sphere to kind of get things done and I and I I hate to say it, but a lot of it is just understanding sort of the internal dynamics and politics of the organization to see who are those people that are going to be your advocates and allies.

Speaker 3: 22:26

Get to know them, you know, get support from them and buy in from them, pitch the idea potentially to them so that they can then pitch it to your boss, like there's ways to kind of work around it and I think, again, that sort of takes some, you know, political I don't know awareness, I think in terms of like internal office, office politics, but there are ways to find people that can support you and I think part of your job as a new, as a new person, maybe in a space where you're not senior, you don't feel like you're senior enough to have an impact is to kind of see who those players or people are that can be an advocate for you in other ways, outside of you know maybe asking for a raise or things like that but who's going to be able to support you, to show up the way that you want to show up and to contribute the things that you have within you, to be able to contribute to the team, and I know it's not easy for everybody.

Speaker 3: 23:17

I think, like I said, I'm a bossy person and you know, and whatever that connotes. Like you know, we can have a whole conversation about the definition of like boss versus bossy and like calling girls that when they're younger.

Speaker 2: 23:32

I'm still traumatized by it. Truly so much. Yes, and my childhood called that person.

Speaker 3: 23:58

And it's those kind of bosses and bossy, you know, even if you're a young person that's going to build those good teams, Honestly like, if you're able to really identify those things and create those safe spaces, you're going to be the, you know, the manager of the month right, the manager of the month right, Like it's, it's, it's those, it's those internal qualities, I think that really, you know, determine who can be successful on teams and how to create safe spaces for your teammates.

Speaker 2: 24:24

I'm loving this call to like allyship. It is giving me such vibes, for we had a trend last year that was like lock arms for impact, and I think you can take that in so many different ways. You can talk about how partnerships help you lock arms, but I do think the internal locking of arms is something we don't talk about enough. So I want to talk about what you're seeing in your space. What have you observed within teams and this is a loaded question, ps that have many different generations represented on your team? And I'm going to put a pin in that real quick because I have to share a quick story here.

Speaker 2: 25:00

When I first came to our healthcare organization and this was probably like almost 15 years ago, I was 31. I was hired in as a manager and in my mind and I was such an extrovert and so curious I was like I'm going to set up appointments with all 14 people for an hour and I just want to get to know. Curious, I was like I'm going to set up appointments with all 14 people for an hour and I just want to get to know them. I want to get to know them, I want to get to know their work, I want to see how that plays into. I was leading annual giving and marketing and events at the time and I was like I'm going to figure out how all this connective tissue works.

Speaker 2: 25:31

It set off this melee that I did not even understand in the culture, where people felt so intimidated that I was coming in to audit them, to be the big brother, to see what their work was doing, and it was like, oh no, no, I just want to know who are you? What are you drinking over there? Is that a picture of your family? Tell me how these grants interact with the systems and interact with you. Know the annual giving process and so and a lot of that came from what are now boomers or the greatest generation. We had some people that were still working, you know, in their seventies in our organization and I think that it's a challenge when you start to navigate interactions with different representations of generations. So talk to us a little bit about that. How do we bring out the best in our teammates? How do we not do the Becky and Decot like bring out all this fear and scarcity of what's going to happen, because we're all bringing different motivations to our work?

Speaker 3: 26:32

Oh, that's a good one, and I have so much to say about that and hopefully I'll remember at least the two things that are coming top of mind. The first thing I think that is really important and I think you already did this, but you know, I think there's probably a nuance to this but curiosity, making sure that people know that you are approaching basically every situation with curiosity, I would even say even when you were getting pushback, like you can be curious within yourself of you know why, why, why is this happening? And not take it personally, right. Like I think the immediate response is be like, oh my goodness, like, like you said, I didn't, I didn't intend this, like it's not me. Perhaps one would get defensive, perhaps one would get sad. Like you know, there's a lot of emotion that would come into that. But I think, you know, curiosity is really what saves me in so many situations. Like it just makes me step back and just be curious about why would someone respond to that, why would they react that way to this? Perhaps there's something I could do differently. So it's really that curiosity that leads to sort of some introspection and self-reflection as well that I think is really valuable in those sorts of moments and to just not take stuff so personally. You know it helps with that.

Speaker 3: 27:43

I think the second thing that I will say is kind of going back to what I said in the beginning building trust takes time and I think you know a lot of us are so eager to get moving and get going and have all these ideas that you just want to dive in, and I really encourage folks to really just like scale back in the beginning, take time to just get to know people, like, yes, you want to have those meetings, yes, you're super curious about how all the dots are connected. And I think you know and I've seen this so many times in the workplace, even like at the intern level, like interns will come in and just be so curious and passionate and just want to absorb as much as they can in the short time that they're with you that they don't take the time to actually get to know you. So I think that can kind of catch people off guard and maybe put a wall up, potentially generationally. That could be the reason, potentially. Again, just difference in personality type, right.

Speaker 3: 28:30

But if there's anything that I can encourage sort of as we're talking about team building is to take the time to build the trust. Pause, stop, slow down, stop all the things that have to get done and take the time to just get to know the people. The person Comment on something that's on their desk that you're curious about, like get to know who they are, because that's when they start to you know again. Move at the speed of trust, like you know right. So if there's any takeaway from this entire conversation in terms of team building, it's the importance of doing what you need to do to build and maintain that trust.

Speaker 1: 29:03

Camila, I feel like you gave us a one good thing in the middle of this episode.

Speaker 1: 29:09

It's so powerful and I think I've seen that walking into a giant 10,000 person healthcare organization, becky pioneered it. We were going to go around and have these conversations with people and just get to know the human, but also what they do. Curiosity is such a bomb for building trust of just saying I want to get to know, I want to learn and I want to get to know the person behind this larger than life leadership role and things like that. So I love that you took us there and I want to talk about, to kind of tap your brain, because I feel like you've got this beautiful perspective that not only have you had this great experience, you're surrounded by incredible consultants that do this work too, but you go in as an interim leader during transitional periods at organizations and I have a feeling you do that in a very human way. But I want to give you a chance to talk about what give us a lens of what can really help organizations thrive during those transitional periods besides hiring you, but they need to hire you too.

Speaker 2: 30:04

So we can talk about both those things.

Speaker 3: 30:06

I would, yeah, and I would say I mean, this is kind of a newish, you know field, I, you know, I think that I, when I was kind of coming up in the working world, I never had an interim anything, basically until the last couple of years that I was in senior leadership. So I think, you know, one thing that I encourage people to recognize is that a lot of times when there is transition whether it's a positive transition, whether it's tumultuous, is it does impart some level of trauma. And you know, I use that in quotes on the team that's remaining. And you know, I think sometimes people don't recognize because they just want to get back into it. This is kind of, you know, I guess, the theme of our conversation. They want to just get back into it, get back to the strategy, get back to the donor reports and relationships that have to be managed, get back to me to make sure the board is feeling safe and confident, that they're not taking time to understand the human element of it, that there are people that are going to be having feeling some kind of way right and so taking the time and space to understand what it is that they're feeling and what it is that's going to be required to help make them feel empowered and strengthened again as they work through it.

Speaker 3: 31:12

You know can't turn off the light switch for people to kind of you know, manage their emotions or potential grief. Honestly, I've seen a lot of grief with some of these transitions If they were really close to the senior leader that's leaving again, if they feel like the transition was botched and you know they're now mistrusting of the leadership. So there's so many elements around communication and making sure that you are kind of, you know having in lockstep with you know kind of the story that you're telling around the transition. You know understanding people's feelings, you know that might have been impacted by it, how that transition is impacting other teams or not. So there's a lot of initially you just kind of have to be a fly on the wall and kind of read the room a little bit to kind of see what's really happening underneath, what people are actually sharing with you.

Speaker 3: 32:01

So I'd say the best transitions I've seen are ones that had a strong communications plan around it. So that means the senior leaders and the board are getting together to talk about what like the reality of what happened and not trying to skirt anything under the rug and figuring out which pieces are going to be communicated and how. Making sure your directors and managers are trained to be able to share that information with the teams, teams making sure the managers are trained well enough to be able to handle potential sort of emotional disruption that might occur because of the transition. And giving people that space and grace to work it out. However, that might need to happen.

Speaker 3: 32:34

I've seen it happen where we've had to have all staff meetings where I come in and sort of explain my role in the process and kind of how I approach things and you know, I like to say like I'm an advocate for the staff and I'm here to help support the organization and make sure that that stays stabilized so that the work can get going. So I have, like this really interesting middle role where I'm playing the hat you know wearing the hat of advisor and therapist and you know like you know everything.

Speaker 3: 32:59

So just understanding the different elements that are that are making up this transition and just being very intentional about how to address each aspect of it, and also being honest that you don't have all the answers potentially right and that they, you know, perhaps creating a system or process for you know things to be iterative, for people to sort of express what's working and what's not. Regular checkpoints throughout maybe a three-month process where folks can talk to their managers and the managers can then relay that to the senior leaders so you can address, you know. So there's ways to do it and I think again, the most successful ways is when there's transparent communication, when there's trust and time spent to rebuild that trust and understanding that folks are going through things potentially and then rallying people to get together around a common purpose. Right, I think that's also a piece that's missed a lot is people again just want to get back to the way things were as opposed to.

Speaker 3: 33:53

There has to be a rallying moment where people can align with something again and feel like they have a purpose for something again, to accomplish something. That's usually like the part that I just sort of really encourage organizations when I step in to make sure that we have this very authentic rallying moment, you know, once everything else has kind of been worked out, because you don't want that to feel fake, right? So I don't know if that actually answered your question. I feel like I kind of went all over the place, but I'm just sort of picturing the different environments that I've been in and the things that I've seen that have worked really well to make organizations handle that transition successfully.

Speaker 2: 34:30

You answered it beautifully and I got to lift the cliff notes out of that because I want people to make sure they didn't miss it, Because I think back to a couple of leadership transitions in my career and it was almost the polar opposite of what you just explained there.

Speaker 3: 34:45

Most are.

Speaker 2: 34:46

There was the sense of power, and of course that is going to create a ripple of anxiety, of trepidation, but you turned that completely on its head. And of course you did, because if you're working through human-centered leadership, then you're embedding that trust, that transparency. Then you're embedding that trust, that transparency I felt so much, that empowerment of the rallying of it's up to all of us. I'm not the leader and the person who's leading and shepherding all of this. We are collectively doing this and I think that shift from that sort of individualism to the collective power is something that we absolutely need to run toward.

Speaker 2: 35:29

And so I thank you so much for the way that you show up, and I would imagine that the ripples that come from that are going to be profound. And so I really just am sitting here thinking, camila, this is the way, this is the way, and I'm also thinking I am so glad that you and Catalyst are in this world to shepherd this kind of experience, because I do think it can profoundly affect cultures, norms, successes, all of these things. So bravo to you and thank you for breaking it down for us so beautifully, and we really, really value the power of story, the power of connectedness and our lived experience, and I'm wondering if there's a moment of philanthropy that has come into your world and just stayed with you. Maybe it's a moment of generosity, of kindness. Is there one that's kind of lifting to the top, that you would share with us today?

Speaker 3: 36:23

Sure, it's an interesting story. So I think there was a time when I was earlier on in my entrepreneurial journey. I run these retreats. You know, similar ethos around bringing joy and peace and safety and trust to black and brown women. Right, I wanted to pour into us in a world that I, in a time that I felt like we weren't being loved, just like the way that that I felt we needed to Um, and the way that I had set up the retreats were. Again we're getting like pampered, right, like so this is like five-star luxury international. Don't think about anything, from the moment you step off the plane to the moment you're on the plane, all inclusive. Like I had a team, so it was like pricey. Right, it was a really really pricey experiment that I was running here and I am really bad about asking for help. I'm really really bad, particularly when it comes to money, particularly when it comes to money. Like I have a weird relationship with money, which I think like an entrepreneur with a weird relationship with money. Like that's a story right there.

Speaker 3: 37:24

You know, and I remember Jess Campbell and I didn't remember that it was Jess who connected us. I was, I think I'm I'm very transparent in the newsletters that I sent out. So I was like, you know, talking people through my emotional process and you know, and I was, I remember, talking, either talking to Jess or I had something in the newsletter and she reached out to me and she's like how can I help? She's like the newsletter and she reached out to me and she's like how can I help? She's like I want to help you fill your seats. I want to help you, I want to help you get it's such a Jess Campbell thing. I want to help you, you know whatever you need. And so I was like well, why don't we? I was like can you ask your members if they want to contribute to a scholarship? And so she like mapped out this plan over the course of two, three weeks where she was posting on her on LinkedIn, posting in her newsletter, created this in 10 hours, overnight or whatever, created this way for people to do a donation on our website and they came through. Her community came through.

Speaker 3: 38:24

And it's not typical philanthropy where you think about having donor conversations and having email, blah, blah, blah. It was human connection, right? I share my story. I had been building trust with people for however long, just by talking and saying I don't have all the answers and this is what's working and this is what's not, and people aligned with that. And to this day, you know, I'm still connected with so many people from her spaces.

Speaker 3: 38:52

I attended her conference earlier this year. She's helped me and supported me and I've supported her in their pocket. So it's like it's now this like very beautiful ecosystem of support and philanthropy, you know, and not just money, but you know, philanthropic spirit of just generosity. You know, and not just money, but you know, philanthropic spirit of just generosity, you know, and so that's a very, very personal story and relationship to non-traditional philanthropy, just building relationships and connections with people and them showing up when you're in need and me having to get out of my ego, right, and say that I needed help or else I was going to lose a boat load of money, right, um, and so you know that that's, that's, that's my example of of just beautiful, spirited, heart centered philanthropy.

Speaker 1: 39:40

Okay, this is one of my favorite stories that we've heard on the podcast.

Speaker 1: 39:43

It's such, it's so full circle, and it points to the power of community over competition, this resurgence that we feel kinship with so many people serving into this space, even though we're under different names and brands. We really are pulling for each other and that example of Jess is just a beautiful representation of it, and it's happened to us along our journey too of this community around it. It's just different than um consultants of lore, like we're really pulling together and I just and can I tell you, john, like john this is the way.

Speaker 3: 40:15

This is the way it's the way, just modeling it yeah, like you guys, have an event coming up about systems disruption, but this is how we disrupt systems that are, that are designed to do it, to force us to compete and to think that there's only enough for so many of us. My growth is because of my connection and community and others' growth, particularly the women in our community, because we share. This is the shift, you guys. This really is the shift.

Speaker 3: 40:44

It's abundance and I think, if it can catch on and if there are enough people that there can be this critical mass of whatever that tips, the whatever you know like, I think we really have the opportunity to change so much of the ways that the way that things have been done that just aren't working for the collective.

Speaker 1: 41:02

It works for some it works.

Speaker 3: 41:04

For some really, really, really, really well, right, but then there's a lot of us that are getting like left behind and I think if we just can continue to just operate in this spirit and this energy of community and sharing and enough, and, and what do you need? And I got that, and you know, this is what I need, like that is how. That's how we're going to shift some stuff.

Speaker 2: 41:25

That is how. That's how we're going to shift some stuff. Okay, Can I drift off of that for a second, because I want to ask you something that's not in the script, but I want to. I want to honor that. You said that and I want to give you space here. I mean, what do your black and brown leaders, your women of color in this work? What do they need right now? What can we do as a community to show up for them, be supportive, whether it's sharing content, whether giving them space, like giving them amplification or investing in their companies. Tell us what we could do. A one good thing we're going to give you your own one good thing to talk about. I'm not forcing you or backing you into this corner.

Speaker 3: 42:02

This is your catalyst one good thing.

Speaker 2: 42:04

Yeah, yes, I want to know how we can specifically help your community.

Speaker 3: 42:08

That is so beautiful. Thank you for asking that question. I would say the women who come to our community are women who have worked really, really, really hard in the nonprofit sector for a very, very long time and contributed a lot to our space, and they are taking a period where they are betting on themselves. New entrepreneurs, you know, newly self-employed people, um, and I would think the biggest thing that I want to be able to provide them are consulting opportunities. Quite frankly, we are kind of staunchly anti RFPs for various reasons.

Speaker 3: 42:44

Um, fun fact, the only the only LinkedIn post I've ever had go viral was basically when I was talking about how awful RFPs are for various reasons, how inequitable they are, and how laborious and extractive they are and I think if we can figure out some way to have people know that this space of just brilliant like, like brilliant women exist former lawyers, former you know USAID diplomats, former executives like these are brilliant, brilliant people that are just like I'm done with doing the things the way they've been done and I want to try and do something else, so like opportunities that we can filter to them for them to go through a vetting process to get gigs. Honestly, you know, I want them to be able to continue to sustain within this ecosystem of supporting each other with work, and a lot of them want they're in this interesting space of just wanting to partner, so a lot of them are not even interested in going after things on their own, but they want to be able to contribute and bring other community members that they've built relationships with along with them. So, just knowing that we exist honestly and you know any I say any opportunity that organizations have or needs that organizations have, that they're just like I can't do this right now, or we just got this new grant and we got to develop this new program Like understand that there's a way that you can manage this without burning out your team. There are people who actually want to support on a project basis. There are people who want to support and come in and just like blow it out of the water with you guys and then say thank you very much, onto the next thing and just knowing that that's again changing the system, knowing that there is another way to do business.

Speaker 3: 44:22

There are groups of people that are really interested in supporting your needs of your organization and just know that we exist Right and again get out of your own way and think to tap us because we want to help with really anything you know fundraising, marketing, research, legal stuff. You know like literally anything you can think of.

Speaker 3: 44:44

I've got it pulled up. I mean the gamut.

Speaker 1: 44:45

So y'all go to catalyst with a K consultcom and there'sa find a consultant button that you can go and see the expertise that's represented in these women, and it is literally there's no gaps here. So, like, if you're looking for someone actively like, go to the site, connect with Camila and find an incredible partner in this journey together. So like, this is what it's about. This is community over competition. In practice, we can do the work together right here.

Speaker 2: 45:12

So we're going to link that up in our show notes, if you don't want to write that down in your driving or something. Go check out the show notes page. We'll. We'll drop the link in the show notes.

Speaker 1: 45:19

Thank, you guys. So much, by the way of course, Thank you.

Speaker 3: 45:22

So I got to shout out my uh. So, Mickey Lozano, we, we pulled that website off in like 72 hours.

Speaker 2: 45:30

We did all of that.

Speaker 1: 45:32

So, that's a whole different episode, yeah.

Speaker 3: 45:34

Yeah, okay.

Speaker 1: 45:36

Um, camila, I got to give you your chance for your own one good thing. I mean, we um just are so grateful for this conversation, grateful for you breaking it down and making everything so applicable. I want to give you a chance to say what's lifted today. That you would say is a one good thing. Could?

Speaker 3: 45:52

be a piece of advice, a mantra what's your one good thing? I would say my. I think we talked about it. I did mention it earlier.

Speaker 3: 45:59

I think curiosity is my one big thing of today, because it's curiosity is what has helped me meet people all over the world and feel comfortable with them as humans. It's what's, you know, helped me find the person that's crying at the airport and ask them about what they need. You know, it's it's it's it's it's it's what's helped me, in challenging situations, not get bent out of shape because someone else might be having a bad day or because you know people are projecting their things onto me and just being curious about what. Is it? Maybe that that's about them? That's not necessarily me Like. I think curiosity is really, um, the thing that is gonna has sustained me and has moved me forward in all of the work I've done, personal and professional, in this interim space I'm in, in this entrepreneurship journey that I'm in and understanding how to support and build community and provide the women in our group what it is that they need. I'm just always asking questions and always wondering why, and always wondering can things be done a little bit better?

Speaker 2: 47:10

It is no surprise that you type A like brilliant leader, human-centered leader, would pick curiosity, because it's just the conduit to evolution and evolving as human beings getting better every single day. So, Camila, we know people are going to want to connect with you. They're going to want to connect with Catalyst. Tell us where you show up, tell us where people connect with you on socials and online.

Speaker 3: 47:33

Thank you, Becky. I blab the most on LinkedIn, so that's where you can find me Again, that's the only place. I'm not even really on any. I just deleted my Instagram account the other day Like I can't do, I can't do it. So Instagram, I mean sorry, so LinkedIn, catalyst with the K consultcom are the best places. And then I would say join my newsletter. Honestly, I think that's the best place and I get really real in my newsletter, Like I show up really real in LinkedIn, but like my newsletter is where I kind of like literally break everything down. I remember I'm sharing my P and L soon, right Of last year. So there's there's a level of kind of transparency and vulnerability that that I showed there with Um yeah, so

Speaker 3: 48:14

that's yeah, yeah, I want to. I want to help Like I feel like it's going to help some folks that I had this post. I was like you know, revenue is not profit and I like I was six figures last year but my profit was like $34,000, you know, because of the retreat and it's and you know there were a lot of expenses. I just really wanted to explain, explain that you know for for new entrepreneurs to know that. You know you see all these people talking about I'm a six figure revenue person. I'm like that don't mean nothing. You know, like, tell me what your profit is, um, so, anyway. So those are, those are the places to reach me.

Speaker 1: 48:44

I mean, I feel our values in this conversation through and through you. We need people. If you're an entrepreneur, listening, you need people around you that you can talk about these things with. Thank you for this conversation.

Speaker 2: 48:53

Phil, just a kinship, grateful for the way you work yes. Yes, keep going rooting for you in all things and really want people to go check out Catalyst and more of your work. Keep doing great work. We need more human centered leaders and what we're trying to chase.

Speaker 3: 49:07

Thank, you Thank.